Typecasting and the Fight for Identity
Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I'm joined by Marc Cuiriz. Hello.
Josué:And Lara Taylor.
Lara:I'm melting.
Josué:It's hot. It's hot. It's hot. It's quite nineties here too. But we're not in a box of torture like you're in.
Lara:A box. No AC. Yeah. Mhmm.
Marc:Yeah. Yeah. This ain't no
Josué:box of chocolates. Thank you for suffering.
Lara:You know, you went through a long period of suffering for this show. I'm fine. Thank
Josué:you for your solidarity. Okay. So, Mark, you saw a movie. It's a movie. Right?
Josué:I don't know.
Marc:Like, they say it's season one, season two because, like, there's
Josué:a second one out. There yeah. There's a sequel.
Marc:So I don't I don't know. I'm just trying to think about that too. I when I was writing in the COPPA conversation, I was like, do I call this a a show?
Josué:Oh, no. No. No.
Lara:I think
Josué:it's both. I think it's both. I'm I'm not even gonna look it up because it I don't think it matters too much. But I believe it came out in one format, and then they put it all together as as a movie. So when I played it, I think it was a movie.
Marc:Okay. Yeah. Because I I watched it as a movie format. Okay. Yes.
Marc:So over What
Josué:are we talking
Marc:about? Yeah. So so last week, I for what reason for I think because I kept seeing all the advertisements every time I turned on my fire stick for the the Kevin Hart DieHard movie series, whatever you wanna call it. So I decided, okay. Let I'm gonna watch it.
Marc:You know? I had nothing else to do. I'm kinda bored. Sure. Let's pop this on.
Marc:And as I'm watching the movie, I I started picking up like, I mean, obviously, it's like it's something that's directly addressed, but, like, I started thinking about it a little bit more. With the movie itself, you know, for context, it's about Kevin Hart trying to break out of the comedic roles that he typically plays.
Josué:To be clear, it's Kevin Hart playing Kevin Hart. Yes.
Marc:Yeah. It's him playing himself, trying to break out and then try a different genre of film or wanting to try a different genre of film as opposed to just being a comedic sidekick to other famous actors. And so throughout the whole movie, you know, he's going through this training to try to be an action hero. And the movie addresses this idea of being typecasted. And he kind of he he announces that and makes a statement about that, like, really in the opening scene where he's like, I'm I'm typecasted.
Marc:I'm just the comedic sidekick, and I know I can be more than that. I can be the main hero. I I wanna do action. I wanna I wanna try something different. And everyone's, like, not listening to him.
Marc:They're like, no. No. No. But, like, we have this great role for you. Like, you're always, like, Dwayne The Rock Johnson sidekick, like and he's the main protagonist doing all this cool stuff.
Marc:Like, you're there for the comedic relief. And so I started thinking about this in a way of like, you know, I understand that, like, in the movie industry or really just media, there are a lot of people and celebrities that have been typecasted or that have find that their roles are being restricted because, you know, they became famous in this one role. And so now that's all that anyone ever really sees them as. That's kinda where they fall into that trap. Right?
Marc:But I was also thinking about it in a more general context of just relationships, both in in family relationships, friendships, even romantic relationships, even it can apply to all sorts of things of how we as individuals can be typecasted as a certain role or take on a certain aspect of a relationship. You know how like a lot of people tend to say like, oh, I'm the therapy friend. Like, everyone comes to me for advice and so that's what I do. I I provide advice to everybody.
Lara:Until you grow back on these and then you don't do that anymore.
Marc:Exactly. Mhmm. You know? Exactly. But even then, it's it's like some people are that's just how people are.
Marc:Or the another example I brought up was like people who are really into cars or that really know cars. They can be sometimes typecasted as the mechanic of the friend group. So if someone has a car problem, naturally, they're gonna be the first person that you're gonna reach out to to help you figure out what's going on. Same for, you know, people that are nurses or that are that are in the medical health care field, you know. There's something going on, you know, they get a picture from somebody saying, hey, do you know what this is?
Marc:Hey, can you check this out? Like, is this okay? Should I go to the hospital? Should I get it checked out? And so, like, I see it happening in every aspect or different context of of relationships.
Marc:And I just thought like, that's really interesting how in this movie, like, they address that head on, and it's all about him trying to be something different that's still him. And also thinking about it in the way of, like, how does that kind of like, how can we relate to that? Because I found myself relating to him, especially, like, at certain points in the film. Was like, yep. I I remember feeling that way.
Marc:Like, I didn't wanna be just that one person. I wanted to be something different. I wanted to be someone new or try a different role.
Josué:Yeah. So so tell me so before we go into, like, the relatability piece, tell me a little bit more about the movie. And
Marc:Yeah. And I did Google it.
Josué:It was a series that was condensed into a movie. Okay. See?
Marc:Okay. I'm
Josué:sorry. Yeah.
Marc:So it's a it's a series movie. Serious movie.
Josué:Not to be confused with a serious movie.
Marc:Exactly. Or a movie series.
Josué:Also. Yep. Yeah.
Marc:Yep. Yep. Yeah. So the movie itself is, you know, the beginning opens up with Kevin kind of promoting a a new movie that he's in, that he's not really proud of. He wants, know, Breakout beats something different.
Marc:And so he meets a director who says, hey, I want you to be in my action film, but you have to go to this school for serious actor training. Right? So he goes to this building out in the middle of the woods and they're like, yep, for the next few months, you're gonna be in this school. You're gonna learn how to be an action hero. And you're gonna go through all this rigorous training.
Marc:And it's designed to like really put them to the test. And he's like, yeah, if you complain or if you feel like it's too much, like I'm gonna call the director, you're out. Like, that's it. You're done. So, naturally, he's like, no.
Marc:No. Yeah. I got this. I'm I'm tough. I got this.
Marc:And then so the whole thing, it turns out, is, like, a whole ploy, basically. Like, him
Josué:being Before I I wanna point out that and I forgot about this, which is that the guy who's, like, running the training thing is John Travolta. Right?
Marc:Yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:And John Travolta, I think I hadn't thought about that before, but I think he was Tycasted before as well. Because some people will be like, who's that guy in that movie? It's like, it's John Travolta. The guy from Grease? The guy from Saturday Night Live?
Josué:Like, he's an he's a he's an action star. Like, he's a Mhmm. He's a villain. Right?
Lara:Mhmm. Yeah.
Josué:Now he plays that role pretty well, I think. But he's not like that goofy, you know. I think I think it's similar to me, it reminds me of, like, Keanu Reeves, where people are like, the guy from Bill and Ted? Like, he was so goofy. And then it's like, oh, no.
Josué:He's an action star now. Yeah. Anyway, I thought it was funny that John Travolta played that that role. Like Yeah. The guy in charge.
Marc:Yeah. Okay. So so yeah. So the whole school itself is really just deployed. Like, it's actually the movie.
Marc:And the goal is to kinda see Kevin's, like, true authentic reactions to all of these serious events and how it plays out. And then, like, like, a a woman shows up also part of this that's trying to be an action hero. And so, like, you see, like, the favoritism and, like, you see him, like, slowly, like, lose his mind about it. But, like, that's all part of the movie that is actually being made. And he's sitting there thinking, and, know, this is just training.
Marc:Obviously, it's funny, but, like, it's it's like, you know, like, you are like, they make this comment a lot where it's like, you can't you can't teach acting like this because you see his, like, true authentic reactions to authentic, but his reactions to whatever it is the training is that's really just deploy in the movie.
Josué:Wow. Wow. Okay. Okay. So I'm I'm imagining it's I've only seen part of it.
Josué:Mhmm. I didn't I never finished watching the movie. So my guess is that he's having a really tough time, and it's a struggle for him.
Marc:Oh, yeah. Like, and but, like, that's the thing is, like, all the struggles that he goes through are designed. Like, they're all purposefully done. Like, his ropes are are, like, frayed. So, like like, when he's suspended, like, it's it's designed to snap and then like he has to like he's dangling there and so he's actually scared for his life.
Marc:Yeah. Or, you know, like they have actors there that are trying to play mean and tough, like when he tries to break out of the school. Like Yeah. They're acting mean and tough that's actually scaring him. And then, I mean, at some point then, like, does step up and he does actually take all the training and he does the things that he was has been taught to do.
Marc:And then that's when they like kinda reveal like, yeah, no, this was this was all fake dude. Like, beautiful movie. But yeah, so like that's kinda the movie in a nutshell, but like, especially at that point when he, like right when he's at his breaking point. Right? He calls up his agent.
Marc:Like, there's a part, like, where he calls up his agent, like, he managed to get a phone. And he calls his agent, and he's, like, I'm, like, trying to explain everything that's going on. And then his agent's, like, being dismissive. And he's like, no. But I got this role for you.
Marc:Right? It's an animated movie and you're gonna be play this dog that, like, enjoys, like, that's up to mischief. Right? Like, that's a and so, like, he's, like, sitting there kind of in disbelief, but, like, you can also tell, like, this is where he kinda hits the low point where he's, like, they asked for me specifically. And then he starts practicing voices.
Marc:Mhmm. And then he starts crying because he's like, how did I get here? Like, I wanted to do this. I really wanted to try and be something different. And this is all I'm good at.
Marc:This is all I I am. And how did I get this point? Then the move then that's when it shifts and then it gives him that opportunity to then step up and start being the action hero because to him, he thinks it's all real.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Marc:So then that switches. But then that's when you see like, no, he was that. It's just that there needed to be like a catalyst or like something to spur it on for him because just because he says he wants to do this and he says that he can do it, that's a lot different than actually doing it.
Josué:So then do people so you're saying that he has a moment of like, does he have the moment of realization that he had it in him all along? Or is it that people around him believe that, oh, he did have it in him all along?
Marc:I think, like, I think everyone did have it in, like, did believe in him, but obviously, he doesn't know that until after the the shooting is done and they wrap up the movie, and then they kinda let him know, like, yeah, this is all fake.
Josué:Okay.
Marc:But in that moment when he does have that realization, even though it's designed for the movie, to him, it's like, no, this is real. Like, I do have what it takes. I can be this because even though it's not on the big screen, like, I just saved this person's life. So I do have it in me. I can do this.
Marc:I and then he goes back and that's when all the other training then kicks in and he starts, like, doing, like, the fighting moves that he learned and understanding these things and, like, he's able to do some of the stunts, like, those sorts of things where he then kinda sees like, oh, no. I do have the capability regardless of whether or not it's on the big screen or not. I got this. I can do this. Okay.
Marc:And so then he believes in himself and then he does all of it. And then at the end, they're like, yeah, know we all did too. We and this is how we did it. This is how we got you to that point where you can do it. And here you are.
Marc:You're the star of this movie.
Josué:Do they do they ever address how like, did he want to be a comedy star? Like, did he want to be a comedian before he was an action star?
Marc:They don't really address that part because at this point, it's like, this is Kevin Hart, like, the in the present moment. So, like, his career is already well established as a comedian and as a person that does Yeah. Comedy
Josué:Mhmm. Yeah.
Marc:So, like, yeah, the movie kinda takes place, like, it's supposed to be, like, relatively in the present moment. So, like, his his career has already been well established as a comedian. So they don't really delve into, like, did he wanna do that first or anything like that? Like, this is just who he is. But it's now it's like, no, but I wanna try something new.
Marc:I wanna try and show a different side of myself Yeah. That no one has ever really seen. And it seemed like nobody really cared to want to see because it's like, no, no, no, but you're funny. So just do the funny thing.
Josué:Just do the thing. Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me of a whole bunch of actors and stuff that you know, similar to
Marc:Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I to me, my first thought was Josh Peck. You know, like, he grew up playing, like, Drake and Josh and doing, like, all, like, these things on Nickelodeon. And then I I remember seeing him in a movie.
Marc:I think it was, like, Red Dawn. Right? Where it was, like, the Koreans were invading America, and it's, like, a it's, like, a serious film. And he's in that movie, and I remember watching that movie, and I was, like, what what's Josh doing in this movie? Like, all I saw was Drake and Josh in him.
Marc:So to me, I'm like, this doesn't I don't know how I feel about this. Yeah. Or or like, I I think like with Zac Efron, that was the same issue. Right? Like, after High School Musical, everybody saw him as that, and it took him a long time to break out of that because nobody really wanted to cast him in anything else because all they saw was the high school musical kid.
Josué:Yeah. Robert Pattinson is is one for sure. After all the twilight films, I think people are still like, I think he's probably after the last few movies, they're like, oh, no. He's legit.
Lara:He's doing okay. He has a successful Batman movie and is about to be in Batman two. So
Josué:Yeah. But he's in other other drama roles too. And so people are like, yeah. And then that guy can act. Like, just didn't have you know, he couldn't do that in
Lara:Daniel Radcliffe is has had the same kind of issue. He does a lot of serious stuff and is a good actor. One that I think of is Robin Williams when he did so much comedy and even, like, heartwarming films and but, like, when he was in twenty four hour photo, and he's this, like Yeah. Very creepy villain guy. I didn't know how to feel about that.
Lara:Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. He ended up doing, yeah, lots of dramatic roles. I mean, I mean, along those lines, Jim Carrey.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:It's like, how do you go from being, like, Ace Ventura and the cable guy to actually doing
Lara:And the Riddler.
Josué:A few
Lara:And yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. Just like the goofiest, just like the like, he's he was just like the extreme. Right? Like, wasn't even human. Right?
Josué:The way that he portrayed some of these characters, and then to do some dramatic roles afterwards, because I think he wanted to do that as well. I think that was his story.
Lara:Another situation I think of is a lot of actors that play villains, and people cannot see them as anything other than villains even in real life because they play the role so well.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. And those are I think and all of these, I think, for the most part, are, like, expectations that we have, right, that we impose on them regardless of what they wanted to do. Because maybe, don't know, if you're an actor, you may want to have all types of different roles. You wanna be on I'm thinking of Hugh Jackman.
Josué:Hugh Jackman does theater, and he sings, and he dances, and he's Wolverine, and he'll do comedy, and he'll do whatever He wants to do different types of movies. So Wester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? They also like, I wanna do other things.
Lara:Action movies, but also comedy. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. So you can do a few different things. But then but then we impose those expectations, right? Like, is that Josh? Right?
Josué:It's like, is that what? And and for us, it can be hard to see someone in a in a very different role. I can't think of a of a tell me if you guys can think of any any other examples like that where you're like, to me, that's a bad guy, or to me, like, that's a goofy character. I can't take them seriously or accept them in this role.
Lara:I know I've had that feeling before, and I cannot name who or what the movie was.
Josué:Yeah. I've had it many times. I can't think of it now either. I don't know. I feel like
Marc:I have, like, a a recent example that I was thinking about too, like, earlier this week, and now I it's it's evading my mind.
Josué:Yeah. I can't I can't think of one. Yeah. I can't think of an either. But I know it has happened many times.
Josué:And it it may have been some of the examples that we already talked about. But since we're so past them, like, I don't remember feeling like, now I see them as like like, the John Travolta thing. I'm like, no. No. Yeah.
Josué:Like yeah. No. Oh, John Travolta is like the bald bad guy in the movie. Yeah. No.
Josué:That works. He's he can play a badass. That's fine. But I'm sure there was a time when I've been like, what? Who's who's that?
Josué:How's that? How's that possible? I think it was Zach Efron. I probably felt that way.
Lara:Another thing that came up as we're talking, you know, like the idea of I was just reading an article about, like, Bridgerton and what actors had auditioned for what roles originally, and that's not our expectations. That's, like, the directors and the producers seeing something in that person that maybe they would be better for this other role. And in those situations, usually, it seems like it works out for the best, but that's also not what the person wanted in the beginning. Right? They wanted to play a different character and audition for a different character and end up in a different role.
Josué:Have you seen the movie Quiz Lady? I don't if you've seen the movie Quiz Lady. It stars Aquafina and Sandra Oh.
Marc:So it's I I feel
Lara:like I need to have seen it with the two of them and that and, like, they're amazing.
Josué:But no. No. It's it's so good. It came out last year. But the thing is throughout the entire movie, I'm watching it.
Josué:And I think I feel like they both auditioned for the opposite character because Sandra Oh is a quirky, kooky sister, and Aquafina is the serious, like, anxious one in the movie. Mhmm. And it is so funny because the entire movie, I'm thinking I'm thinking about this. I'm like, they should they would I think they're doing great in the roles that they're playing. Like, they're both doing amazing, but I would have expected them to play the opposite role because flipped.
Josué:Because of how I see them. Yeah. Highly recommend that way. That's very good.
Lara:Okay.
Josué:But it it plays exactly that. Yeah. Okay, so those are those are like our expectations of it. Sometimes you hear actors talk about it. Like I said, like, I've heard Jim Carrey talk about how he wanted to do a serious role.
Josué:I've heard Sister Cillone and Andre and Srush and Lager both talk about that. One that comes to mind, remember Chloe Bennett, I think is her name from Shield? A lot of you remember?
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:You played Sky, right? I remember seeing an interview where she was like, yeah, this is not where I expected my career to end up. Like, I wanted to do stand up. I want to be a comedian. Like, I want to do funny stuff.
Lara:And wonder that's why they did all
Josué:that funny Right? Behind the scenes So I was like, I was so surprised by that. Like, I couldn't imagine her like in a in a comedy. And actually, was looking forward to when they they did a pilot for a Powerpuff Girls live action show. And she was playing I believe she was playing Buttercup.
Josué:No. No. No. She wasn't playing Buttercup. She was playing, which was the pink one?
Marc:Blossom.
Josué:I think she was playing Blossom, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think that could have been, like, a funny thing, but it also would have been, like, a different way to see her. Alright.
Josué:So there's that. Right? So so now let's go back, Mark, to the relatability part. Right? Like, why did you relate so much to seeing this and this idea?
Marc:I mean, I think for me personally, I think there was always that aspect or or, like, for me growing up, like, a lot of kids either came to me because well, when I was younger, it was because I was the smart kid. So people would naturally gravitate to me to help them with homework. Like that was the role that I provided. I I knew what was going on. I knew the the material.
Marc:So I helped kids to understand it or, you know, especially in like middle school, high school, you know, sometimes I got paid to do homework and I charged an exorbitant fee and they paid it and I wasn't gonna complain. And then I turned in, and then again, as I got older, while I had that role, I wanted to try to be something different. Like, I wanted to try and and be more than just the smart kid. And that led to me becoming like the person that everyone went to for advice, which kind of made me kind of start realizing more about where I where what I wanted to do in life and and ultimately led me down psychology. So now I at least get paid for it.
Marc:But that's kinda what happened where, like, I I was trying really hard to try to find and have other people like, have people see more than just one aspect of myself. But that was surprisingly very difficult to do for me at least. Like, people only really saw me as in in one particular way, and it took a long time for me to get people to start seeing something different. And even then, that wasn't always the case. Like some kids still only thought of me as the smart kid or the one that knew everything and kind of refused to see me differently, which, you know, that's fine, whatever.
Marc:People I didn't really associate too closely with anyway, but, like, amongst friends, that still took time for me to, like, show them that, like, I'm I'm more than just this one particular aspect of that everyone knows me for. So, like, that's why I that's how I was able to kind of relate to to Kevin Hart in this because, you know, that's what he's going through. It's like, no. I want people to see a different side of me. And so then that kinda got me thinking of like, for you guys, like, what are some roles that maybe you guys kinda grew up and and or some things that you kind of like, what are your experiences with, like, your roles in in friendships, relationships, or even, like, examples where you might have done that to somebody else?
Marc:Like, not purposefully, but it just ended up happening that way.
Josué:Yeah. I can I mean, going on to school stuff, I I was good at school? I hated school, though. Like, I didn't want to be the smart kid. But I like I remember once in high school, the math club was going to a competition.
Josué:And they were short one person, you know, and they're like, Jose, will you will you please help us on the team? I was like, they're like, you're just you're just like, like, our best chance. You're like, the best one in math class. Like, you've got the best grade. Can you just please?
Josué:I was like, fine. Fine. I'll do it. But that was never, like, a desire. Right?
Josué:So there wasn't, like, a I don't know that I had any label at that point, but there were expectations. Right? There were, like, I was recognized for certain things. I think I was generally well rounded when I was in school. I would play sports.
Josué:I would be in different clubs. I would be in different things. I would be involved in all sorts of stuff. By the end of high school, did I was in the talent show. I competed with a math competition.
Josué:I did all sorts of stuff. So I was pretty well rounded. So I don't think I I really fit into any, any particular label. I lacked identity, most of my life. And did have the experience where I wanted to study psychology, but I was severely discouraged from doing so because I was good at math, because I was good at science.
Josué:And so I was I was really pushed discouraged from studying psychology and pushed towards studying engineering. And so I ended up applying to engineering programs and getting a bachelor's degree, engineering and technology, instead of psychology. And so that's a big example of that. And then I think just in general, probably every job I've had ever, including being a therapist, there was an expectation of just a general expectation of what you're supposed to do and not supposed to do. And I did not yeah.
Josué:The the part of this is more relatable to me is not what I wanted to become. And I struggled with it was more of the expectations that were put on me and my fighting against them. Mhmm. Which hearing you and hearing me now too sounds like like just like pathological demand avoidance. Like, they they you know, it's like, oh, you should do this.
Josué:It's like, oh, well, now that you said that I should. Mhmm. Now I don't want to.
Marc:Yeah. And it's kinda funny because, like, I think, like, Kevin Hart's agent in this is kind of, like, kinda that voice where it kinda represents, like, the demand of the people because, obviously, your agent is designed is there to kinda help you make money, get you get you roles. And so if the people want the want the actor to be in a particular thing, like or if they know that that's what they're known for, generally, the the agent's gonna start leaning more towards that. Like, yeah, they'll try to take some of the actors considerations into account with that. But ultimately, it's like, hey.
Marc:This is a really good deal. Like, I got this lined up for you. Like, I think we should do it. I think you should take it. Like, that's that's a very heavy influence there.
Marc:And that kinda goes like with what you were saying where, like, you were good at math and good at science. And even though you wanted to do psychology, people were like, nah, but I I think engineering, like, that's a good deal. You should do that. You can make a lot of money. You can do all these things.
Josué:Absolutely. Like, there's the money in psychology. Don't do that. That was the the primary
Marc:And I remember I remember having that same conversation with my dad too because when I brought up the idea of psychology, he's like, why on earth would you do that? You're good at math. You're good at science. You've said you wanted to do chemistry. Go into chemical engineering.
Marc:That's what the money is. And so I I remember enrolling in in undergrad as a chem major, and then I dropped out three days later because I was like, this is it. This is actually isn't it. I don't want this in my life. So but so like that for me was like that avoidance aspect.
Marc:But again, that was also like, you know, people were trying to put those expectations on to me. Yeah. And that because it was reinforcing everything that everybody was telling me up until that point. Like, they were trying to force me into this niche or this this idea that they had of me. And I didn't want to stick with that anymore.
Marc:And I wanted to try to actually create my own character because again, like that another aspect too that I remember being thrown into, which then transitioned into being the smart kid was when I was going into middle school, I had my cousins. Like, I was actually now going to school with with actual family, and they were more popular. So I no one bothered to learn my name. They just knew me as so and so's cousin. And so that then transitioned to like, oh, but you're the smart one.
Marc:Like, they're popular, they're funny, they're cool, they're whatever, but you're the smart one. So I know that I can get you to do to help me out here. And if you don't wanna help me out, I can just go to your cousin and then they'll talk to you and and everything will be fine. And I'm ashamed to say that that worked for the most part, but again, that was also me trying trying to find that identity, trying to establish something and being known for something was better than being known for nothing at the time. But again, like, that's that's like where these that's how I was able to relate to what was transitioning here.
Marc:But I think for you, Josue, a lot of a lot of that was more of like from the agent's perspective where it's like, here's all these expectations that movie producers, directors, culturally, society is pushing onto you, and I think you should do it. And it's like, yeah. Okay. Fine. But like, I really don't wanna do that.
Marc:And then it gets to a point where it's like, no. I I don't wanna do this. Like, this movie sucks. Don't wanna do it. I wanna do something else.
Marc:I'm gonna do something else.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have I don't I have different thoughts, but in general, yeah, there wasn't there's never been anything that I'm like, I'm going to change what I want to do. Because I think there's a difference between who you are and who you and and what you want to do.
Josué:Right? Like, I don't think you know you know where I'm going with it?
Marc:Yeah. Yeah. I get I get where you're I get what you're saying. And I
Josué:think for me,
Marc:I I looked at it at more of like the personal identity level. And I think, at least from what it sounds like for you, it's like more of like the more of like the with the actual meaning of like, no, Kevin wanted to do wanted to do something differently as opposed to just doing comedy. And that's how, like, you're relating to it. It's like, this is what I want to do as opposed to what the expectations of what other people want me to do are.
Josué:Yeah. Like, Laura Laura, can speak more into this. Right? But, like, I'm, like, I'm there was never, like, oh, an expectation about, oh, you should like girls. You should like boys.
Josué:Like, there was nothing when, like, no. This is who I am. Like, I didn't give a shit. Like, there was nothing that I was telling people, like, this is who I am. This is what I want to be.
Josué:Like, I mostly wanted just people to leave me alone. Like, the most I've had to deal with stuff like that is like, I I I've I've I hated the way people around me dressed. I hated the way people around me. I hate the way you do walk, the way that you dress the way. Mhmm.
Marc:That's exactly where I went.
Josué:That's a Kendrick callback. I've always rather had my hair long. And like, sure, lot of people in my family were like, oh, but you look like a girl. But it's like, yeah, but I'm I'm I'm not a girl. I'm not trying to be a girl.
Josué:I'm just trying to have long hair. Like, leave me the fuck alone. Like, just don't bother me. There wasn't anything that I was trying. You know, like, was no there was no intention other than just being who I wanted to be.
Josué:But when it comes to, like, oh, I wanted to get be a psychologist or I wanted to do whatever. Yeah. I mean, I never felt I again, I had that typecasting, but I don't know how much I struggled with it, especially later on as an adult. Because I just kind of I will say that it's not easy, right, like, to to get out of those things. Like, in order to change from being an engineer into being a therapist, that cost me a lot.
Josué:It cost me job security, higher income. It kind of I was eventually able to, like, navigate both. Right? But it's kind of like you're you're kind of discarding a lot of stuff that you did before in order to do this new thing. It doesn't always have to be that way, but there is like a cost involved, which true and can be difficult as long as there's more people, know, that there are more of those expectations.
Josué:So it can be harder. Yeah. Lara, what are your thoughts?
Lara:I mean, I think about the fact, similarly, I didn't I mean, I was typecast as the one who would listen to the problems. I was also the smart kid, though. I had a lot of different roles. But I also in high school, especially, I bounced around. I I was a chameleon.
Lara:I could hang out with the goth kids. I could hang out with the drama kids. I could hang out with the art kids. I could hang out with the anime kids. I mean, everybody was kinda nerdy, but I moved around in different groups.
Josué:Yeah.
Lara:And so, actually, I I mean, half of those people probably were queer back then, but didn't know it or didn't say it. I didn't hang out with many actual out queer kids back then. So that was an interesting piece. But, I mean, it's not something that I ever really wanted. I being the one that listens to everyone's problems wasn't a thing that was a problem for me, I think, because Yeah.
Lara:My friends also listened to me when I had stuff to talk about. So it wasn't like I was giving up anything or being, like, pigeonholed into this and no one like, I was also the quiet kid. So if I did speak up for myself, people were like, woah. And that still happens now. I was the quiet one.
Lara:So a few years back, I cussed out my brother at thanks Thanksgiving, and everybody was like, woah. That's not you. Yeah. But, yeah, never really ended up feeling stuck, I guess, in a role.
Josué:Yeah. You know, I'm thinking it is one of the most common tropes in adventure, fantasy, sci fi. Right? Actually, the you know, all the stories that were like, where someone is not expected to be able to be that hero. Right?
Josué:And they're either chosen or or something happens and people are surprised, they're like, you you're the one. You're the ones who's gonna save us. Right? Like, that's very common thing. Or Mhmm.
Josué:You know, I can't think of a single anime that I'm watching now where this isn't the case, where the hero the the the main character wants to be a hero and aspires to be something that nobody else believes that they can do like Kevin Hart. Right? And it's it's I don't know, it's very common, right? Like, I want to be the wizard king, I want to be Hokage, I want to be, you know, the strongest fighter, I want to be the greatest hero, whatever whatever it is. It's a very common thing.
Josué:But but when you but I don't, I like this reframing of the typecasting piece. Because a lot of those stories are more. They're kind of straightforward. Right? Like, nobody's, like like I I can't think of any stories right now.
Josué:Actually, Game of Thrones, Arya. Right? It's like, no. You're supposed to be a princess. You can't, like, stop stop using the bow and arrow.
Josué:Like, you can't do this. Like, there is a role for you, and this is what you have to be and do. Why can't you be like your sister? Right? And just do this.
Josué:Those types of stories are are, I think, less common. But having that Arya
Lara:goes and uses the skills that she has or the things she feels like she's good at. Right? Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. Also, she just leaves. Right? Like, leaves. Yeah.
Josué:Like, fuck this. I'm gonna go train. I'm gonna go become this this warrior that I that I want to be.
Lara:To be fair.
Josué:She has to do it alone. She has to sacrifice her family.
Lara:Yeah. Exactly. The she does that when her family, like, gets murdered. Like
Josué:True. True. True. It was easier than sort of, kinda. But it but it is a story of right?
Josué:It's like, oh, you you you had everything lined up for you and decided for you and you and you chose not to do that. The the Kevin Hart thing is so funny. I I haven't finished watching DieHard, and I haven't watched part two. But he's playing Roland in the Borderlands movie, and that does not sit well with me. Oh my goodness.
Josué:Mark, did you know this? Did you know this?
Marc:I did not know this.
Josué:Oh, I mean, I mean, the even the trailer is out. Like, there's a trailer out already. Like and and so for so long, I was like, I I cannot and part of it is like people people make jokes about him being short. I don't know how tall he actually is. So I don't know, like, how short
Marc:he is. He's five seven. They they mentioned that in in the movie. A lot.
Josué:I imagine. Yeah. And so, like, roll Roland is not a small person in the games. Right? But even, like, physically, I can I can see past the physical presence?
Josué:I can't imagine Kevin Hart having the presence that Roland has in the games. And, yeah, I mean, it goes to exactly what DieHard is all about. Like, I don't I don't hey. I hope you proved me wrong like many other actors have, but that's a that's that one's I'm looking forward to experiencing that, whatever that may be. What was your reaction, Mark?
Josué:Don't know.
Marc:To to what you just said, I Yeah. My reaction is literally how everybody felt in that movie. It's like, really? An action movie? Like, a a serious kind of movie like this?
Marc:Like
Josué:Borderlands even isn't even that serious. I mean,
Marc:you know. I know. Like, I'm sure, like, they'll they're still gonna be, like, comedic aspects to it. But, like, it's I mean, Borderlands as a game, it's like, you know, it's like a it's a it's a, you know, first person shooter kind of.
Josué:I I think he would have been a good claptrap. That would be hilarious. Mhmm. Yeah. But Jack Black is is claptrap, I believe.
Josué:And and Kevin Hart is Roland. I wonder if he went in for the for the Claptrap audition and just like, no. I'm here to read for Roland. Right. I don't know.
Josué:I don't know. But that but that sucks. Right? That, like, we that if he really wants to have those action roles, it sucks that well, for one, he's rich and famous and blah blah blah, he'll be just fine. Second of all, he actually got the role.
Josué:So I don't know. I don't know that he that his performance alone is going to make or break that that entire movie. But I'm rooting for him. I I hope it's good. And also, I like that franchise a lot.
Josué:Laura and I have played a lot of borderlands together.
Lara:We have.
Josué:I'm I'm I'm looking forward to this movie. But Kevin, good good. I'm glad he got that role.
Marc:Good for you, Kevin.
Josué:Good for you.
Lara:I've seen him in a serious film. I can't remember the name of it. It was yeah. It was a very interesting experience, and I actually think I would took a client to go see it a long time ago.
Josué:And Really? I What is it? No. Let's look this up. What is
Lara:I'm I'm I'm trying to find it. It he was he took a job as a home health aide or like a yeah. To someone who needed care in home Fatherhood.
Josué:The upside?
Lara:The upside.
Josué:Think. The upside. Yeah. And all around the way unemployed banned with a criminal record, he gets hired to be a caretaker or a paralyzed billionaire. Yep.
Josué:Portrayed by Zordon. Mhmm. Bryan Cranston.
Lara:Yep. Mhmm.
Josué:Okay. And how did how did he do?
Lara:He did pretty good. It was a good
Josué:movie. Yeah.
Lara:I'm I mean, not one that I would have gone on to on my own, but the client really wanted to see it. And it did it was good. It wasn't a bad movie. Yeah. He was believable.
Josué:Yeah. Doctor Who is probably my favorite show. Depends on what day you ask me, but it's usually my favorite show. And there's a season with Matt Smith, where they talk about how he has he's no longer like, his actions have been so different than what they've been before that the the meaning of the word doctor has changed throughout the universe. Like, the word doctor means a war general because he has become this figure in this giant war, and people are so afraid of him.
Josué:So then when they say doctor, they don't mean someone who takes care or heals. They think of somebody who, like, can lead an army and destroy you. And I think it's it's interesting that the because of the way that that show is set up where they recast the actor constantly, you you deal with the the typecasting thing or the expectations in in different ways. One, you have the knowledge of this particular actor. Right?
Josué:And you have expectations about what kind of doctor they'll play. But also, there's the expectations of what the act the the character should be and should do. But they still allow every actor who plays the character to be to bring something of their own. So there is an understanding that the that the doctor's personality does change slightly. And for the most part, the Doctor is this really good person.
Josué:But there's that one arc with Will Smith, Matt Smith, where he becomes this person who's known for war. There's also a war doctor that comes later in the show. And then in David Tennant's run, there is a point where he is just tired. He's like, I am sick of saving people. Like, I am so tired.
Josué:Like, I and he's also like, I I am so powerful. I can do whatever I want. And I'm sick and tired of this. Like, people are ungrateful. I don't wanna do this anymore.
Josué:And it's it's it's a show that I've related to regarding these ideas often because he he deals with having to change as well and what that means. And like in his case, every time every time the doctor changes, they're leaving something behind in order to to become this new person. And I think that that's something that's like a part of this that keeps coming Mhmm. To mind. Right?
Josué:Like, I don't maybe maybe it's a good thing. Right? Like, maybe Kevin Hart wants to he wants to completely remove himself from from being typecast as a as a comedic actor. And that's it. Right?
Josué:He still wants to be able to do comedy. He just wants to be able to open up the, you know, new opportunities. And maybe that's really all it is. And maybe that is, yeah. Like, maybe I'm going into maybe the expectations thing is too broad, and not so much in the typecasting because really that is about just opening doors and having more opportunities than what people think that you're you're capable of.
Josué:I when I was I don't know how old I was. Kindergarten? This is a story my mom told me because I can't remember. But she said that when she took me to school, made to get registered so we left Puerto Rico and went to school. This is a very common story among immigrants.
Josué:Mine played out this way. I I went to school, I was gonna get registered to school. They're like, yeah, no, that's great. And they're like, yeah, we just moved here from Puerto Rico. Like, oh, then maybe maybe we should hold him back.
Josué:Like, maybe he shouldn't be in the same grade with all the other kids his age. Maybe we should also, mean, know, like, like, our birthdays are, like, right at this cusp, this weird thing. Right? So it's like, like, he'll be young if he say, know, if he goes into the the group he's supposed to, what if we can hold him back so that he, you know, he gets used to language and stuff. And my mom was pissed.
Josué:My mom was like, test him. Test them right now. And so they they they tested, you know, how well I I knew English and blah blah, all that stuff. And so they backed off of that. But their expectation was that if you were an immigrant, you were from a Spanish speaking country, you you could not do x, y, or z.
Josué:And that is something that people struggle with. Like, it's it's fun it's fun to talk about, like, oh, Kevin Hart, and, you know, he's typecast as a as a as a comedic actor. But those types of expectations, right, like doors are closed on people constantly. Because it's like, oh, if this person is a minority of any kind, if they went to the school, if they grew up in this place, there's no way that they could do this job or that they have you know, they're capable of doing this. And then there's that catch 22 piece of like, well, how can I prove to you that I can do it if no one ever gives me the opportunity?
Josué:So then you have to make this case for it and find a way to figure out how to get out of that typecasting piece. But it's something that people deal with every day because there's sure. Kevin Hart has all of the he has a portfolio that typecast him, and some of us are typecast because for other reasons. Have a friend speaking. They have a Spanish last name, but they're from The Philippines.
Josué:So they don't know Spanish. They know Tagalog. But I I was asking them earlier today if they have ever, like, had a job interview where someone asked them or or said, oh, you don't have an accent. Like, oh, like, your English is so good. Because they come in with this assumption that their last name is a Spanish last name so that they, you know, they must speak Spanish or they must struggle.
Josué:And those are those are things that we're dealing with all the time.
Lara:Reminds me of a coworker I had who we worked in an open office. So anytime she got a text, some she'd, like, bring it up. Oh, I can't believe so and so said this or whatever. She got a text from her son's teacher, Hispanic. And the teacher had written it in really bad, like, Google Translate, like like, ten years ago, Google Translate Spanish about her son's homework or something.
Lara:And assuming that she could not speak English, she's like, why bother? Why bother? This is this is so bad. You're I don't like, I know what you're trying to say, I think, but it would've been better for you to to text me in English. You know?
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. What do you now I'm thinking on the mental health front as well. I don't know why it took so long to get to this part.
Josué:I'm also talking to someone recently about how I remember working a mental health center. And I would disagree strongly with the diagnoses of other clinicians. And it was usually white clinicians who were diagnosing Hispanic families. And this goes into the broader this can go into the broader conversation of how diagnoses don't consider cultural factors, and how behaviors in one culture may be completely normal. But through the lens of the DSM, or some of our training at school, it looks disordered.
Josué:Right? Or as is the case many times, it is simply uncomfortable for the majority. Right? And so those are I think that's a type of type casting that happens. And so I would work at this place.
Josué:I worked at this place. And so I would I would intervene. I'd be like, that that doesn't like I've I've worked with this family. I've met this family. That's not that's not the diagnosis.
Josué:And then they would base it off of things that I could I could debate, right? Like, how they're seeing it from a completely different from from, like, a very limited lens. And I got the diagnosis changed for a lot of my clients, but I had to make that. I had to intervene for them. But they can really do that for themselves.
Josué:Just like, I mean, you know, all of us when it comes to health care and and mental health, it's hard to advocate for ourselves. Not really in a position of power there. But how do you how do you what how can we I mean, a lot of these stories are helpful to relate. Like, I think I think they bring up some of these things. These are some of the things that they can bring up in us, right, these experiences, I think can can help talk about them.
Josué:Do you have any ideas or or even is DieHard a good example of something that could help somebody who's dealing with this to to kind of overcome that struggle or maybe help them push forward?
Marc:Yeah. Like, I'm thinking about it in kind of I really like, there's a couple of my clients that that I think I would say at least
Josué:kind of are kind of
Marc:going through like what I was talking about earlier with more of like an identity thing of like trying to figure out kind of who they are and also kind of being afraid of being perceived as something else and fearing that that label might stick with them while they're in school, things like that. And I think this type of movie is a way where, you know, it's funny, so it's not like a super serious film, but it does get that point across of like, you know, just because people create a label for you that does not define necessarily who you are and what you're capable of. But I can also see it in a sense of, like, of Hannah, how you've been describing it, of this idea of, like, everyone has these expectations of what I should be doing, and yet I don't I don't wanna do any of that. Like, that's not I wanna do something different. I wanna try something different, or I wanna see what if this might fit me better that even though everyone's telling me one thing or another, and how this movie can be used to kind of, like, explain that or explore that even further for them and seeing, like, hey.
Marc:Okay. Like this this makes sense. Like, I I get it. I get what you mean.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lara:I could see using it when I was working in the group home with the kids who come in their typecast as a criminal, hoodlum, all these other words. The kid that I took to see Kevin Hart actually to see the upside. They actually probably would have really liked this movie. And we had several conversations about people labeling him as a sex offender and what that means.
Josué:And Yeah.
Lara:He could never get out from underneath that while I was working with him. I hope a decade later, he's still doing he's doing well and and better than he was when I was with him. Same with the other kids. I think this idea that, oh, I don't have to do the same thing I've always been doing. I can try to do things a different way, and other people can see in me that I can do things differently.
Lara:And, Josue, I don't know how it took me this long to get to the group homework. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. We're warming up. Mhmm. Now we're in.
Josué:We're just warming up. Mhmm.
Marc:This is this
Lara:is I don't wanna warm up anymore.
Marc:Is canonically the first time when I've been able to I've been able to refer to my clients as my clients Oh. As a as a graduated master's student. Pre licensed. But, you know, we're getting there.
Lara:Yeah. What they were my clients when I was in grad school. They were my clients before I was in grad school.
Marc:I know. But I'm talking about, like, this is my first time referencing my clients postgraduate.
Lara:Oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah. Fancy. I'm fancy, No,
Lara:you're not.
Josué:I think we have tons of stories. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
Marc:She's just saying I was not fancy.
Josué:Oh, uh-oh. No. I think I think I think it's pretty easy to find stories to reference about people who, you know, you want to grow out of that shell, want to adopt a new label, you want to accomplish something new, people think that you don't have it in you. And there's stories of perseverance and all this other stuff. I think there's tons of stories that people could relate to depending on the context.
Josué:I think that moment of like I don't know. There's something about that identity piece of like, do I have to abandon this previous identity to to adopt a new one? Or what does it mean? How does that affect the relationships around me? How does that affect how people perceive me?
Josué:One one comic book, I'll I'll recommend two comic books. Haven't talked about these in a while. There's a comic book called irredeemable and and incorruptible. And an irredeemable irredeemable is not the one that I want to reference really. But irredeemable is about a superhero like Superman, who's just really tired of being a hero, and everybody's super ungrateful.
Josué:And he's just so angry. And then he basically becomes a a villain. And then but Incorruptible is the one that I like the most, which is about this guy who is kind of like what you were saying, Lara, right? It's like, hey, this person, why is this person a villain? Know, like people consider him this.
Josué:Sometimes you have no other opportunities. So you end up like, okay. So he steals, he does this, he does that. Like, that's how that's those are the only opportunities for him. His motivations are different.
Josué:People don't understand him. So then when incorruptible I mean, the redeemable happens and this superhero becomes the world's biggest threat. This villain, the supervillain in incorruptible, he he decides, well, I can use my powers to stop this guy because this guy is out of control. So then he basically becomes a hero, something that nobody expects him or wanted him to be, but it's what he wants to be. Anyway, it's a story that I really like a lot.
Josué:And I would reference doctor who as well as, going back to that idea of if you want to sometimes you have to change into something new, which is something that happens a lot and is mostly how it's framed in Doctor Who. He or she has to change and become a a new person. And that, you know, there's a cost associated with that as well, which I think I think is an important part of that conversation of, like, accepting who you or what you've done and what you've accomplished, knowing that that doesn't define your entire future. Knowing that to be something new is never easy. There are different levels of difficulty depending on what it is and what your past experience is.
Josué:Well, not directly related to what we're talking about now. I know we did an episode maybe years ago at this point on redemption stories. Mhmm. So like, Lara, when you're talking about your your client, I think some of these might you know, some of these examples might benefit from some of that, where your past actions don't define you, whether good or bad. Like in the typecast thing, we're talking about it like you just kind of want to change genres.
Josué:But, you know, in real life, it could be many different things. As someone who changes genres every couple years, I have a lot to say about this topic. And as it comes up, like if you gave me specific examples, I might be able to bring out different stories. But I think there are a lot of them. And I do like the angle DieHard.
Josué:It's even again, it's like it's a clever it's a meta story. It's like three levels deep in terms of at least the concept. I'm not talking about the execution, but at least the concept of it. All right. So any closing thoughts, Mark, on this?
Marc:I'm curious to see how DieHarter how it builds up on this and if it does addresses a different issue or if it builds on this point.
Josué:And how Borderlands turns out.
Marc:And how Borderlands turns out. I'm curious to see how Kevin Hart's trajectory changes with all this now.
Josué:So I'll
Marc:see him in more action movies.
Josué:In 02/2017, he was in the upside. Played a serious role.
Lara:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Josué:We'll see. Laura, closing thoughts.
Lara:We are not other people's expectations of us. We are more than that. And that's all I got.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:You're gonna get typecasted. Fuck it. Mhmm. Fuck them. Fuck them.
Josué:Do what Yep. You're gonna Yep. Again, I think I think the probably the most helpful stories for this are the ones that show the cost involved, that there are consequences to changing. Good ones, but there's there's also I mean, there's just consequences, good and bad. Like, you're gonna there's there's trade offs.
Josué:You cannot I I used to I used to mention this all the time, but in what is it? In in Endgame, right, where Tony Stark says to to Captain America, he's like, I want to regain what we lost and not lose what we've gained.
Marc:Mhmm.
Josué:And I thought that that was a beautiful sentiment. Mhmm. And, of course, he dies at the end because that's not the way it works out. You can't just have everything. Like, there are costs involved.
Josué:Usually usually, you can't just, like, keep doing everything else that you were doing, have everything you had before and also change your life, change your role, change your whatever it is that you're feeling typecast in. There will be will be changes. Alright. Well, let us know if there are any stories of typecasting or if any of these brought up anything for you or what do you think of Kevin Hart in the Borderlands movie. Let us know in any of our community spaces.
Josué:Links to those are in the show notes. For more geek therapy, visit geektherapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good, and we'll be back next week. Bye. Geek Therapy is a five zero one(three) nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture.
Josué:To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.
