Two Variants and a Baby
Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona, and I'm joined by Marc Cuiriz. Hello. Link Keller.
Link:What's up?
Josué:And Lara Taylor.
Lara:Hey.
Josué:Alright. So so listeners, there's there's like a an inside joke. I think we brought it up here quite a few times that Lara and I are basically the same person. There are many different there are many things that set us apart. But for the most part, we're we're very similar.
Josué:We tend to think similar. I don't know. Now that we're 40, maybe maybe we're, like, branching off. But for the most part, we've been, you know, it's like there's a lot of resonance here. We're we're like, operating
Lara:some frequencies. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. Definitely variants. And and then along the way, we met another variant, but but a much younger version. So the joke extended to include Marc as like, he's like the younger version of of us. And it fits, right?
Josué:Like, there's all this resonance and and part part of the of the fun of this of this inside joke, which is now being shared with everyone, is a lot of stuff, you know, that that Marc does is he's doing the same stuff we did, and so we tend to react to that. So, Marc, you look kinda tired. How how are you doing? How are you feeling?
Marc:I'm not gonna lie. Before before recording, I probably would have been logged on a little sooner, but I was falling asleep. Mhmm. Yeah. I was I was laying down, the the lights were off, and I was like, yeah, I got like twenty minutes.
Marc:It's fine. Open my eyes, it's like 08:05, and I'm like, well, I need to run downstairs.
Lara:Marc, pro tip. Every time you lay down, set an alarm for at least five minutes before the next thing you have to do. If I have a no show for a client, I go lay down on the futon here in my office with an alarm for five minutes before my next client.
Josué:Mhmm. So this is what our lives are like now. Lara will give advice to Marc that she wishes she would have had when when she was younger. So that's kinda that's
Marc:kinda the topic. To not listen.
Josué:That's that's that's the motivation for today's podcast. Because last week, Marc did something that activated in us some feelings.
Link:We were
Marc:so angry.
Josué:And so Marc was not present at the last recording. And I said, you know, during the or after the recording, I said, I feel like I'm talking to my younger self, and I know my younger self is not going to listen. But I but I keep doing it anyway. And, of course,
Lara:I'm watching your younger self make those mistakes.
Josué:Make the same mistakes over. It's like, it's so painful.
Link:For our audience members, I just want to paint a little picture in this moment. Jose and Marc are both sitting in front of me with their black headsets, their black square glasses, their dark t shirts with gray sweaters over top. And they're both doing the same thin lip, you got me face. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful.
Josué:Thank you for validating that we're not making this up. This is is basically a one of those movies, one of those stories where you just I don't know who traveled to what timeline. I don't know who went back in time, who went forward in time. But we're oh, what's the one what's the oh, this one isn't exactly wasn't there one with, like, a radio where the guy could, like, speak to the past to his father? It was like Dennis Quaid, I think was anyway, I thought he I thought he spoke to himself, but he doesn't speak to himself.
Josué:He speaks to his father who died a long time ago, but, like, he's, like, connected to the past so he can talk to there's so many stories that I thought of that do this kind of make it to like, sometimes you travel back in time and see your younger self. Sometimes your younger self comes to see you and has some opinions about where you where they've ended up. And sometimes I'm good advice. We haven't gotten there in this version of the movie. Marc hasn't traveled.
Josué:Marc hasn't given any good advice. I don't think. I'm I'm open to it, please.
Marc:Well, now I just feel attacked.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't attacked.
Marc:I mean, you're accurate, but
Josué:my goodness. Don't hold back, you know, when you're when you're like, I don't you know, how do you not end up where we've ended up? You know, maybe you've got some insight that we that we forgot. But I don't know. So so playing with this idea, I think it's been it's been a lot of fun, but also kind of valuable in a way where it can be in as a kind of just an activity of like, what would you tell your younger self?
Josué:And I find those tropes in movies and stories pretty fun most of the time. And also like a good team up between a younger version and an older version. So this is kind of a team up here. Two variants and a two variants and a baby.
Lara:I feel like originally this was two variants two variants teaming up to school the baby. But yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. Some more.
Marc:Two and a half variants.
Josué:This is yeah. Kind of. I was making an older reference.
Link:Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:Marc, there's an old movie called Two Men and a Baby. That's what I was referencing.
Lara:Men and a Baby.
Josué:Was it Three Men and a Baby? Was it Three Men and
Marc:a Baby?
Josué:Oh, right. And then the sequel was Two Men and Three Men and a Lady. It was it was three. Yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:Confusing my two dads with with two minute three minute. I I
Marc:do remember hearing about this movie. I've never watched it, but I do I I do vaguely remember hearing about it. I think it was probably in, like, a I think I did like a a film class in it was either in high school or it was in
Josué:Studying the classics.
Marc:Yeah. Basically. Going through the eras, you know.
Lara:I watched that movie so many times when I was young. So many times because it was one that we had on VHS at the house. And then also was on, like, one of those shit channels like TNT that just shows movies all the time, or used to show movies all the time.
Josué:So there were fewer fewer movies.
Lara:Mhmm. There were a lot fewer movies and a lot fewer movies being made each year. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Josué:So so as I brought this up, any any of any type of story or are there any examples of stories like this that have the younger, older self meeting each other? One type of story I thought of was also the one where you'd like to get get to go back and relive events. Those are kinda cool. So any any ideas, any examples came up came to mind?
Marc:So when I was kinda reading through the topic, and I know you gave a few examples yesterday when you presented the topic, I was kinda thinking for a minute. I was like, god. Like, I can't really think of any media that, like, has this trope. I was gonna talk about, like, Avatar the last airbender because, I mean, technically, it's like the younger self talking with the older selves and things like that. Mhmm.
Marc:And it only dawned on me as you were, you know, doing the intro and everything. I remembered this movie. I I and I really enjoyed it as a kid. It was Zathura. It was the whole concept of that movie was these kids are, you know, it's a two brothers, an older brother, a younger brother, and they don't really get along, but they start playing this game.
Marc:And what happens in the game ends up happening to them in real life. And along the way, they meet, like, one of the NPCs and the that's part of the board game. And then, like, over time, like, it you end up finding out that, like, the NPC is actually, like, an older version of the older brother, and he was, like, trapped in the game. So it was, like, almost like a chance for the, older self to go back to the younger self or like the younger self to look at the older self and be like, hey, listen, this is what happens when you don't get a like, this is what happens when you make certain decisions, you have to be able to live with those consequences and, you know, and then, you know, then the movie kind of moves forward from there. And I was like, I remember watching that movie and not really, like, like, I I get it and I understood at the time.
Marc:I was like, okay. Like, don't don't fight with your brother or, like, learn to get along or, like, really value the those relationships because you never know when they might no longer be there. But I think, like, when you're talking about it this way, like, this is a chance for him. He was, like, really trying to, like, the older self is really trying to teach the younger self, like, hey, listen. Like, you don't understand how valuable these types of relationships can be, both on, a a metaphorical sense of, like, this is your only brother.
Marc:And also in the sense of like like in the in the game, it's like, you cannot move forward. You can't do anything without him. Like, you need him just like he needs you. I
Josué:think I think Sothera is technically a Jumanji sequel. Right? Isn't it based in the same world?
Marc:I don't know if it's based in the same world, but it's yeah. But it it was kind of it was
Link:I think so.
Josué:Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It no.
Josué:It's it's just like both of those movies have, like, these rules. Right? They they're, like, very magical games. And so I'm just curious how he how he got trapped in the game and then sent back in time and then all that. Now I wanna watch it.
Josué:I didn't know it had that. Mhmm. I've never seen it. Interesting. Do they help each other out?
Marc:Yeah. I mean, obviously, like, in the end, like, they like, the or, like, the older self, like, he's called, like, the astronaut, and, like, he helps them go through the game because he's played through the game. It wasn't until, like, he drew a special card, then that's what got him trapped in the game. But in this case, it was like, no. He's helping them work through things.
Marc:He's kinda seen it all. He knows what's going on. So he helps them, like, navigate through the obstacles and the challenges that the game then presents from there.
Josué:Cool. Cool. Alright. That's a good example. Very good example.
Josué:Mhmm. Anybody else have an example that came to mind or that you like?
Lara:My my favorite example is in Days of Future Past. When Professor X comes back to talk to Charles Xavier, young Charles Xavier, who's like lost all of his hope. And it's like one of the most therapy lines. Like, my friend from grad school and I watched this movie together, and we both were like, that is that's so therapy. That's so a therapist.
Lara:Such a therapist line. And we've it resonated with us because we were in grad school learning how to kind of manage our emotions and other people's emotions in the room. And it's like the line that it's it's not their pain you're afraid of. It's yours, Charles. And as frightening as that may be, that pain will make you stronger.
Lara:If you allow yourself to feel it, embrace it, it will make you even more powerful than you ever imagined. And then that's the thing that ignites, oh, I'm gonna be a hero now, and I'm gonna save the people and all of that. But without Professor X coming back in time to tell him that, he probably just would have been a drunk laying on the ground. So
Josué:Yeah. Well, one of the things that I like about those stories is, like, unless they actually go the route of explaining the entire loop, right, like how he like, the younger Xavier always got the advice from the older Xavier. So now that he's older, he knows that he has to go back and do that.
Lara:And do that. Mhmm.
Josué:It the movie doesn't go that far into it.
Lara:No. Other other time travel Shenanigans have it. Does explain things. Sometimes you have to have the suspension
Josué:Yeah. Disbelief. Yeah. Well, so so, like, in that example, like, maybe it would have just taken him longer, you know, for that for
Lara:that to happen. Maybe not. Because if it in this situation, if it took him longer, things would have got real bad. I don't remember exactly. Yeah.
Lara:Because there's so many x men movies. I'm like, which one was that one? But things could have gone really bad and everybody could have died. So
Josué:Yeah. But like, how did the how did old Charles get, like, figure it out? Did he figure it out on on his own? Or did something else
Lara:happen? Came He always came back.
Josué:Yeah. It's like in Spider Man, No Way Home. Mhmm. Right? Like, it takes him a long time to get to with great power comes great responsibility.
Josué:Like, he eventually gets there. Right? This version of of Spider Man. Even though the other two versions had already had that experience, it was slightly different. But eventually, he got to that to that point.
Josué:And it came at a different moment in his life, but it it was still like, he still got that that motivation, that advice, that kind of mantra, Which is cool. Like, how do you you know, in what different ways do you get that that message? I like it being delivered by that future version of you. A part of me is like, yeah, no. I need to hurry up.
Josué:I don't wanna wait another ten years. Actually, this is this is this is this is my my bias. Right? These are my feelings about it. Where I think of Marc, and I'm like, Marc, I didn't have an older version of me to tell me how to avoid these problems.
Josué:Right? So, like, in a way, I'm jealous of you, Marc, for for but but I know I also know that if I did have an older version of me telling me things, I also wouldn't have a lesson. Like, I I know that. I know that. But there's still a part of me that's jealous.
Josué:It's like, but may maybe I would have. And maybe I could have avoided some some issues, some obstacles along the way.
Marc:Not this timeline. Maybe another one.
Lara:Well, if you if you wanna be a hero like Charles Xavier, you need to listen to your future selves.
Josué:I know.
Marc:Listening ain't my strong suit sometimes.
Josué:Yeah. I know. Also, that I mean, in the example of There's a Future Past, like, young Charles has hit rock bottom. Yep. Mhmm.
Josué:Very, very, very
Lara:bottom.
Marc:Yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:Link, do you have any examples like these that you like?
Link:I am struggling to think of very many examples that have some sort of time travel element where the the person meets themselves. Like, I can think of a lot of examples where a person is meeting like a friend or family member, where they're meeting an older and younger version of a different person, themselves like, generally speaking, is like the time travel stuff I engage with is like you shouldn't talk to yourself that will mess up the timeline.
Josué:That is that is a whole other trove.
Link:So yeah, I'm I'm struggling to think of an example that fits in that way.
Marc:Okay. Okay. You know, as we're talking, like, my memories just keep getting unlocked. And I've I've also never realized how much Nickelodeon actually addresses this topic in some capacity, in some way shape or form.
Josué:Like, had a had an episode where they met a future version? Or it
Marc:was like a or it was like a special. Like, there's the Danny Phantom, like, ultimate ultimate enemy where like the whole point is that he's going to the future and he sees his future self. And then the future self comes back because it wants to ensure that everything happens the way it happened for them. So that way the future stays the same. And then it becomes this conflict of like fighting those internal, like the dark side of you basically.
Marc:And like even though they're there and acknowledging that that's always there and that's a potential that can happen for anybody, Consciously doing what you can or consciously making the effort to try to do better and be better, a better version of yourself, I think that was a a pretty, like, meaningful topic. And, like, this was, like, you know, Danny Phantom's way of doing it. And then this this is really this is this one's really out there, but there was a fairly odd parents I think it was a movie, but maybe it was a special. Maybe both. It was the the channel chasers special where, you know, they're going through the different channels in in the TV and they're going after Vicky.
Marc:And along the way, they come across this ninja that's, like, trying to stop them. And then they find out towards the end that the ninja is actually Timmy as an adult, and he came back to try to, like, stop everything. And then, like, as he's, like, returning back to the future because, like, his thing got damaged, he's, like, telling Timmy he's, like, trying to tell him, like, listen. Like, you have the power. Like, you gotta believe in yourself.
Marc:You gotta trust yourself. Like, you can do this. Like, giving him those those words of encouragement and also, putting it in him, hey. Like, it's okay to grow up because that was the big fear. It's like, he's scared of growing up because then he loses the fairies.
Marc:And he's like, no. No. Like, listen. Like, things are gonna be okay. It's okay to grow up.
Marc:It's okay to let this go because it'll always be fond memories.
Link:Yeah. Yeah. Paper Girls.
Josué:Yep. That's one of my examples.
Link:I did not watch that show, but I did
Josué:Read the comic?
Link:I did read the comic, and I very much enjoyed it.
Josué:So that's the trope of the younger self traveling and meeting the older self Yes. And being very disappointed.
Link:Real judgey.
Lara:Real
Josué:judgey. Mhmm. Mhmm. Like, for context, right, like, she's she's she's at an age where and correct me if I'm if I get into details wrong, but she's she's so she's, like, so certain that her future is going to be a certain way, and she's gonna study in a particular place, she's gonna have this career. And then she meets herself, and she dropped out of the college and she's doing something completely different.
Josué:And the younger self is so disappointed.
Link:She doesn't have those friends anymore. That's another big thing. Yeah, and then there's the one character character who finds out she dies from cancer in between the two the two timelines that they touch on, which is That's very disappointing. Intense. Mhmm.
Link:Pretty intense to deal with personally, but also the teens around her trying to cope with that and her coping with it. That's that was a pretty intense sub plot sub plot.
Lara:Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:Because that can that can we're we're talking specifically about meeting a different version of yourself, but sometimes that version of yourself is just delivering information about the future. It's just forecasting or telling you what's going to happen. And then how would it affect you if you knew like, how would you choose differently if you knew what was coming regardless of the messenger?
Lara:Well, and here and here's the thing. In this situation, Marc has two different versions of what can happen in the future. This way is no longer a therapist, and I am a therapist, and I'm enjoying my job.
Josué:My my therapist
Lara:I'm still very tired, but I enjoy my job.
Josué:My therapist likes to remind me that from, like, the first time I I called myself a recovering therapist, she brings it up all the time. To be clear, it's the system that burn count, not the not the clients, not the work. It's a system. Yeah. But it's true.
Josué:You have branching paths at some point.
Lara:And both of those branching paths are telling you some things.
Josué:Some of them are telling you. It's true. It's true.
Marc:I'm glad they can reach a consensus on some things.
Josué:Some things. Yeah. Like, boundaries are good, Marc. Boundaries are important. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. Heard of boundaries?
Marc:I think I think my hair headphones are cutting out.
Josué:Yep. Yep. Yep. Actually, this whole episode is an intervention to help Marc learn about boundaries.
Marc:So Steven Universe. Right? Yeah. Steven and the Stevens? Mhmm.
Marc:That's that's another great prime example. I'm just chock full of examples that I am totally not copying from you.
Link:I learned to stay true to myself by watching myself die.
Josué:I I really like Steven and the Stevens because it shows just like how much insight in the very near future, right, can help you see a situation differently or make a different decision. Because basically, like, he just plays out a couple hours, and he keeps coming back in time and trying to convince himself not to do so, like, to avoid certain behaviors and do certain things. And it takes it to an extreme that is just fantastic. But, right, like, that one is it like, it's it's the older version of himself, but it's the older version of himself by, like, five minutes, you know, is how it starts. And then it keeps happening and happening.
Josué:That's a good one. That's a really good one. I mean, I like it.
Marc:I mean, I'm I'm surprised you thought of it because I'm gonna be honest that I probably would not have thought of it.
Josué:Yeah. Well, so recency bias is a great thing. I I rewatched the show very recently. And when I it's I think it's the third time I'm rewatching the show, and I didn't remember half of it. So that's just the way that's just the way it goes.
Marc:Maybe I need to rewatch it now.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you wanna remember it. Yeah. That's that's like every time we do these topics, I or any topic.
Josué:Right? And I I like that we we all have different stories that we remember. Usually after the recording, a whole bunch of examples come to mind. But in the moment when we're here, if I don't come prepared with the list, it's hard to remember.
Marc:Yeah. That's that's happened to me a couple of times where I'm like, goddamn it. I had this thing and I I thought about it literally as soon as you hit stop. I was like, oh, wait a minute. Hold on.
Marc:Here's a prime example.
Josué:I know. You could have gone back in time and reminded yourself of the example. Exactly. End up in the episode.
Marc:Exactly. Instead, it just gets lost to time.
Josué:You just can't. Just can't think so one thing as I was looking for examples, I found one that wasn't exactly like this kind of going back and talking to yourself, but it was very much learning from other people's experiences in a particular way, which was Edith Finch, where, like Yeah. Where she's she's going back and the it's not her memories that she's living through, but she's living through the memories of her family members and learning about them.
Link:I mean, like, if you're if you are looking through more of a less individualistic lens, like that having that close of a relationship to your family members and and getting to see their moments of death. Like, I think that's the same level of intimacy as yourself.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it's a more it's a more it's a more relatable and probably accessible type of example. Or it's like, oh, you can talk to your grandparents, you can talk to your parents, you can talk to your older siblings who live in the same place, gone through a lot of the same experiences or dealt with the same people. Right?
Josué:It's like, hey, I figured this one out. Let me just give you a couple couple pro tips on how to how to handle this. You happen you seem to be going through down the same path that I am. So in a few areas, let give you let me give you a few notes that I that I've taken. It's the, you know, learning from from history.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:Should you do what is each of yours position on the idea that like, do you think you can or cannot learn from other people's experiences?
Lara:I think you can.
Link:I think you can, but I think the process of that learning is different, and therefore, some people will be better at that skill or worse at that skill.
Lara:Yeah. Mean, some people can't learn from their own experience.
Link:Yeah. Exactly. It's like it's like, there's there's the learn from observation and the learn from experience, and those are both different ways of learning. And so in either of those realms, you can be better or worse at that skill.
Josué:Got it. So possible.
Marc:Yes. Yeah. I think I think the same thing. Like, think it is possible. I am not one of those people, but I do think it is possible.
Marc:And and I know I have seen people that like, I would like show them kind of like how things are done or like, I would kind of explain things or they would be there as I'm like experiencing something. And they're like, oh, okay. Don't do that. Or like, Oh, okay. Like, that seems like the, okay, I see what you're doing.
Marc:And then I see them kind of like pick it up and then they're practicing and doing it on their own. Then it's like, okay, like they got it. They, you know, let them kind of do their thing.
Lara:Yeah. Mhmm. I mean, there's even a there's a passive kind of learning too with I I talk to clients a lot that have learned how to be in relationships because they watched their parents when they were young. And there's two kinds of learning that way. There's the learning and not like the observing and not realizing that they're reenacting the or even they might realize that they are reenacting those same patterns that they didn't want.
Lara:And that's why they come to me to kind of talk that out and figure out how to do things differently. There's also the learning of observing their parents and saying, I never want to do that to anybody. I'm going to do this other thing differently and trying to do that. And I've seen people successfully do that. So I think you can learn from other people's experiences.
Josué:Yeah, I ask because in Spanish, there's a saying, the literal translation. I mean, in Spanish, it's literally would be nobody learns from a foreign like, from another person's mind, if it's super literal. And it that always bothered me ever since I was a kid. And and a lot of it has to do with what you just said, Lara. I call it negative learning.
Josué:Right? It's like, oh, I see what I don't wanna do. I see what not
Lara:to do. Like, kinda like positive negative reinforcement or like
Marc:Yeah.
Lara:That kind of thing. But yeah. Yeah. No. I don't wanna do that.
Lara:I'm not gonna do that. Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. Of course, my position is we can learn not only from other people's experiences, but also fictional characters experiences. Mhmm. That's a, you know, big part of what we're what we're talking about here. And because it provides an example.
Josué:Frankly,
Link:the average person is going to interact more with characters from fictional media than real people in their life. Yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:And I don't know how applicable this is, but there is a re a research experiment or research that Jeremy Gonagle cites in the book Super Better about people who observe people playing sports, and if it affects their skill level and ability to do sports. And what they found was that if they didn't know the sport so, like, I think tennis is is one of the examples she uses. If you've never played tennis and you don't know how tennis works, it doesn't help you at all. But if you do know tennis and you have played tennis, observing people playing the game can help you. In fact, get better at the game and improve your your skills in a way.
Josué:Right? Doesn't make you stronger and more agile and faster or anything like that. But, like, you pick up a lot of a lot of it through observation. Like, if you're primed for it. Yeah.
Lara:Which makes sense. Same thing as like, I am trying to play this game, and I don't know how to get I know what I have to do. I just don't know how to do that. So I need to go look up a video and watch somebody do the thing to figure out how to get up to whatever shelf or open whatever chest, that kind of thing.
Josué:Yeah. I do that a lot.
Lara:I I do that a lot.
Josué:I do that a lot.
Lara:I used to I used younger me used to be very judgmental about that, and I have learned over the years not to be.
Josué:Yeah. What do you mean about, like because it's it's like cheating?
Lara:Or I was like I I was like, I'm gonna do the first playthrough, and I'm not gonna look anything up. I'm not gonna, like no spoilers, no, like, cheats, no nothing. I'm not gonna go to any walk throughs. I'm gonna figure it out on my own. The number of video games I've beaten has gone up since I stopped doing that.
Josué:Yeah. Always that. No, I used to it uses it still surprises me when that people used to buy like, you would go to GameStop to buy a physical game, and they're like, hey, do you want a strategy guide with it? And so many people would buy the strategy guide with the game that they're buying. Right?
Lara:Oh, and I did. And I wouldn't use it.
Josué:Why why did you buy it?
Lara:Because there was pretty art in it.
Josué:It's collector's item. Got it. Yeah. But a lot of people would buy the books, like, and then follow along. It's true.
Josué:Some people wouldn't. But really, a strategy guide is just a full walk through with pictures and to to to play the game. And but now I I play on the easiest mode possible whenever possible. And if it is rare now that I spend too long like, I'm more mindful of time, I think. So if I'm like, it's ten minutes and I haven't been able to figure this out or like, I'm lost, then I'll go and I'll go look it up because I have less time left than I than I used to.
Link:I use I use video game walkthroughs because Memento Mori. Yep.
Josué:I wanna spend this time on I wanna spend seeing the rest of this game, not this this one room, this one puzzle that I can't figure out. Yeah. That happened a lot.
Marc:I will say that's probably the one thing that I have learned a lot faster about not being as judgmental about looking things up when I'm trying to play games. Because I was very much in the same boat, and I cannot tell you how many times I chose to sit there in frustration for three hours trying to figure out an assassin's creed puzzle than bother to look it up.
Link:Do I do wonder if these are if these are related. Do you think that right now, 2024, Marc is better about listening to other people's thoughts, feelings, opinions about your life choices than you were, say, I don't know, five, ten years ago.
Marc:That's a
Link:very complex question. About that, I would actually like to put that to our to our two variants while the baby thinks about it. Do you think that you two are if if somebody ten years older than you gave you some some advice on your life right now, do you think you would be more likely to take it now than you were ten years ago?
Lara:Depends on the person who is telling me that is ten years older. But yes, there are people who are ten, twenty, thirty years older than me that give me advice. I'm like, Okay, that makes sense.
Link:I think that's maybe what these kinds of stories are sort of engaging with, is that there there are points in our lives where we we would be way more open to hearing from our future self or from any person older than us who is trying to give us some knowledge that there are times in your life where you're gonna be way more open to that or very, very closed to that. I do think age has something to do with that. I think I'd be more willing to listen to advice now than than ten years ago. Not by a lot, but a little bit a little bit more willing to listen.
Marc:Mhmm. I I think yes. I think I am much more open to listening to other people's thoughts, feelings, opinions regarding my life choices than I was, let's see, about ten years ago. Oh, God, ten years ago. Because I remember very distinctly when I turned like, right when I turned 18.
Marc:And I had, like, my mom and, other adults try to tell me, like, hey, I I see what you're wanting to do or I see what you're doing. Not the best idea. Wouldn't recommend. And I was like, I'm a do it anyway. And boy, howdy do I wish I had listened.
Marc:And I think like now, especially with the the heckling that I get on this show, I am much more open and somewhat more receptive. I wouldn't say by a whole lot, but I am at least somewhat receptive to the advice and the feedback that I do receive regarding the things that I do or that I contemplate doing. But, yeah, I I think younger me, I would probably I'd probably feel the way they do sometimes when I don't listen to what
Lara:they have to tell me.
Marc:I'm like, you're you're an idiot, but okay.
Josué:For me, the strategy guide thing, hadn't thought about this before. The walkthrough in the strategy guide is kind of how I think about the situations, like cause and effect. So I get stuck a lot. Like, would love for a future version of me to come and tell me, hey.
Link:I've noticed that you're feeling a little stuck right now. Let me just hop in and give you a fun hot tip for all the radical players out there.
Josué:Yeah. Well, it's like it's like, hey, if you if you take door number one, like, took norm door number one, and this is what happened. You know, just so you know, like, that would be helpful. Like, that's that's something that I still deal with. I get I get paralyzed by indecision when I have more than one option, because I'm afraid of making the wrong decision or of what the potential consequences could be.
Josué:And I don't trust myself to make the correct decision based on my past versions. Decision making. My track record is okay. And ultimately, it's the world that that is unpredictable. But like, that would give me some comfort.
Josué:Right? If if the future version of me is like, hey, I took door number one. And just so you know, I hope that a future version of me and I don't know if I'm this way with you, Marc. Let me know because I would I would this is what I would like future me to to be like for me. Not necessarily give me advice, but just be like, hey, I took door number one.
Josué:This is this is how it went. That's it. Like, I'm not saying do the other one. I don't know how the other one's gonna turn out. I'm just telling you, I took Door number 1.
Josué:That's kind of how it turned out. And I don't know if that's what you expected or not, but this is what happened. Do with it what you will. I so what I so I hope I wouldn't be so pushy. Maybe I'm a little pushier with Marc.
Lara:I think we're both pushier than that
Marc:with Marc.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. But but yeah. I mean, I think, again, I I don't I don't know. If if the older me gave me advice, I think I would be resistant.
Josué:But if it just gave me data, I
Marc:think I would it
Josué:would it would inevitably influence my decision.
Link:I mean, here's the thing. If it was your future self, your future self would know I cannot phrase this as a demand. It must be just like, hey, by the way, cool facts that you might be interested in make your own decisions here. That's how you would know if they were, like, truly you from the future or some evil clone. Yeah.
Link:That's how you
Lara:would know.
Josué:That's how I would know.
Marc:Yeah. But at the same time, then, like, that poses the question of, like, if, like, your future self came back and was like, hey. This is what I did. And you know, here's the data based on what the decision was that ultimately influenced your decision.
Josué:Mhmm.
Marc:Then this goes to the whole time travel thing.
Link:Yeah. Paradox.
Marc:Yeah. Then then it's a paradox. So then what happens to the future self if ultimately choose a different decision? Because then all that information is that technically true information because now you've influenced it. You've changed it, and you went down door number two as opposed to door number one.
Lara:See, this is this is really fine.
Link:This is really a conversation about you three because if it was about me, I'd be time traveling to lie to myself because it's funny. You have to choose door number one Cause it's funny.
Josué:Yeah. Well, I don't I don't know how it fits into to that link, but I can I kind of do Marc to your your last comment? I believe in branching timelines. So I think that doesn't matter what happens. It's gonna be it's gonna be an alternate timeline.
Josué:Very much like actually, I don't I don't remember. How does this happen? How does Terminator actually address this? The three says that it's inevitable. Right?
Josué:Because Terminator movies are always about future someone from the future coming to the past to change the future. And actually, two and Genesis not Genesis. No. One two and what was the last one called? Do you remember?
Link:Mm-mm. Judgment No.
Josué:That's two. That's two. And the the third one the the new third one. Anyway, those are always like, you go to the past, you change the future. You're always changing the future.
Lara:Rise machines.
Josué:No. No. No. Rise of the machines is the third one. I'm thinking the last one, the one with the with
Lara:Dark fate.
Josué:Dark fate. Dark fate. That's the one. Yeah. I think that that particular timeline is like, you always end up changing.
Josué:I mean, you change your future. I don't know if there's like a parallel timeline. Do you remember the history of trunks?
Marc:Marc Absolutely, I do.
Josué:Right? So so in Dragon Ball Z, trunks comes from the future to prevent the terrible future that he has. He comes back to prevent it, but he still goes back to that same future. Like, doesn't actually change his timeline. Yeah.
Josué:It becomes a parallel. So he saves this timeline, but his timeline is still screwed up. That's how I believe it works.
Marc:Which But this kinda confuses me a little bit. This this is a side tangent, but this this kinda confuses me a little bit because you have super, and at the end of the Goku black arc Yes. And, like, his so his future gets absolutely demolished. It's gone. Yep.
Marc:And they're like, oh, yeah. We're just gonna go to a different parallel universe. I'm like, how? Yep. How?
Marc:One, how? Yep. Second, why didn't you do that before?
Josué:I know. I know. Every every Dragon Ball fan feels that way about this. It's not number, the answer is that the answer this may be relevant. The answer is that Akira Toriyama does not remember what he did, what happened in his own show previously.
Josué:Mhmm. And he just kind of makes up makes it up as he goes along. Meaning, it doesn't matter what happened in the past. Truly, it's really it doesn't matter.
Lara:It it it doesn't matter. Like, it like, there's no time travel in our world currently. I who knows what in futuristic whatever. Maybe maybe future me will live live forever and come back and tell me, look. We got time travel in the future.
Lara:But we don't have that. So it it it doesn't matter. So the the thing that we have are these media examples and also experiences like Jose and I harping on Marc about decisions he's made. Or like this whole conversation has reminded me of one of the kids that used to live at the group home that I worked at when he was like 23, came back to the group home and talked to the kids that were there living there at the time and said, you know, these people helped me so much. You should I was cussing them out and throwing things and doing all kinds of stuff and making making a fool of myself.
Lara:And I didn't need to go through all those things. I didn't need to go to jail after. I didn't need to do all that to get to where I am. Now you guys could listen to them and then get out of here better for it. They were nicer to us for maybe two weeks and then went back to doing this.
Lara:But it did it did kinda sink in. And I think a lot of stuff like that, I I hear from people who work there now that sometimes kids will come back and talk to the as they grow up, come back and talk to the kids. I think that it kinda settles in after a while, and some of the kids have an easier time once they've transitioned out of foster care because they had someone who knew their situation and could kind of help them smooth things along a bit.
Josué:Well, it took us forty five minutes to get here. And this is really like the point that I was trying to get at is that I think that the the trope of the future version, speaking to the past version, and variations of it, has a lot to do with therapy, trauma work, reparentification. Trauma work is all about dealing with stuff that happened to you in the past. And I think I mentioned, right, like, I've been I've been studying IFS lately. And the idea is like, there's all of these parts of you that are like snapshots from throughout your life that are continuously reacting the way that you would have reacted in that time.
Josué:And so through therapy, it is like now this future version of yourself gets the chance to talk to the child version of you that is still somewhere in you and is influencing your behavior and your thoughts. So like, what would you do? And how could you what would you say? Depends on the theoretical orientation that you have in terms of therapy. Right?
Josué:But I
Lara:It also depends on case by case sometimes, like going if someone's beating themselves up for doing something, like, in in that kind of loop, sometimes it can be helpful to talk about it and figure out, but asking, like, what would you do differently and and all of that might make it worse. Like, oh, I should have done this. I should have done that. And a lot of times I end up talking to people. You made the decision that you needed in that moment.
Lara:It might good, bad, neutral, whatever, that's the decision you made. And each of these little decisions, it's not like we need to go through trauma to get to where we are now. It doesn't make us a better person or whatever. But, like, as we see in these time in time chain in time travel media, it's like each of these little things build up over time to to shift trajectories.
Josué:Yeah. Even a change in perspective, right, it's still very much like you're you're relearning something. Right? Like, you get to see Mhmm. You're in a way, you're going back to whether it's an experience or just a a pathway of thinking that that doesn't serve you.
Josué:You can you can provide, whether it's insight. I think there's something powerful about there's a difference between like, you all said, like, it depends who's coming to give me that information. Mhmm. You know? It's there's something about you yourself understanding why things happened to you previously.
Josué:And why like you said, like, you had the information that you needed at the time. And maybe the problem the problem is that, like, you still either regret it or you feel guilty about it or you feel shame about that. And then what can you tell yourself now to sometimes it's just a matter of, like, just not feeling that way anymore. Right? Not even just changing, necessarily the past, except that we do right?
Josué:Like, again, depending on your theory, right? Like, and and how you talk about trauma, but it's like, that part of you is stuck. Mhmm. And it's doing and it continues through through the future you to influence behavior that may not be serving you, like not setting boundaries.
Lara:I get I keep like not setting boundaries, Marc. I get so many I get so many people who will get stuck on this, like something that happened to them probably when they were a kid. Right? And it's like, oh, I should have said I was so stupid. I should have done something differently.
Lara:I should have done this. I should have done that. I should have known. I should have whatever. And there's the reframe of like, you are a child.
Lara:Who told you you should know all these things when you're a child? Right. So having that reframe can be really helpful to get out of that out of that cycle. Yep. Yep.
Lara:So yeah. People are standing right here telling you, Marc, you have boundaries.
Marc:I'm gonna set a boundary with this first right now. Like
Link:Hell, yeah. Get
Lara:him. You tell him, Marc.
Josué:Shut up, Marc. Respect your elders. Okay. So what if you're if a younger version of you came to now and saw where you are, what would they what would they think?
Lara:Oh, man.
Marc:You know
Lara:That depends on which yeah. How young Which girl
Josué:What girl You get to choose. You get to choose. Oh. You get to choose.
Lara:I I don't wanna choose.
Josué:I'll choose for you if you don't wanna feel I
Marc:you know, for me
Lara:There's there's some events that like pre that and post that.
Link:Mhmm.
Marc:You know, it's really funny. I think when I really think hard about this, and like, I think it regardless of what age I'm I am, I think ultimately, like, younger younger me would be, like, kinda look up to to me now. It'd be like, wow. You did it. I mean, like, we all have, like, that initial reaction.
Marc:It's like, you know, like, they'd probably would think all these things. I'm I have no doubt that younger me would also think that current me is a loser and a dweeb. But at least now it's like, hey. We we've accepted that. We're good.
Marc:We're cool with that. Like, that's fine. You can get we can we can be ourselves. And I think younger me would be more comfortable with being themselves instead of feeling that they constantly need to conform to either whatever peer group that I I was in at that whatever age and time or trying to figure that out depending on, like, if I had just moved or something. But I think ultimately, like, given everything that I've gone through and despite all that still being in the position I'm at now at the age that I'm at, like I think younger me would be like, hey, like we did it.
Marc:We're we're pretty cool. Like we we actually got we accomplished the things that our parents have always wanted us to do despite all the hardships that we've had to go through.
Josué:So I think all It's in of them.
Marc:Yeah. In spite of all of that, like, you did it. Congratulations. We did it. We're gonna do it.
Marc:Everything's gonna be okay.
Josué:I love that. Also, you're so young. So many years ahead of you. So Don't. Don't.
Josué:That's good.
Marc:Yeah. I'm not don't I'm not don't remind me. I'm not wait I can't wait till I'm 40 and there's like no life and then I have a I have a
Lara:Marc, you're already 40. We're all 40.
Marc:Get on my mental mori. That's that's my favorite catchphrase,
Josué:you know. That's what I like to say. Yeah. Lara?
Lara:I'm still like, what version of me is the one I think regardless of age, well, if we're if we're talking very young, they'd be really happy that I have all this cool stuff in my house. But regard like, regardless, I think a younger me would think, oh, damn. You got old.
Josué:It's like,
Marc:damn, we got old. Very
Lara:I'm thinking about high school me. High school me would be very happy that I stuck with what I want. I knew I wanted to do and kind of stuck with it since I knew I wanted to be in psychology since high school. That I actually followed through on something because there were a lot of things I didn't follow through on in high school. I think that, again, they would be very happy that, like, I didn't let go of the things that people say you need to let go of when you get old.
Lara:The fandoms, the fun. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:Cool.
Link:Interesting.
Lara:There's so many different versions that
Josué:can happen
Lara:this place. So many there's so many.
Marc:I didn't I didn't prompt you. Variance, branching timelines, all
Josué:of it. Yeah. Link.
Lara:Please don't make me spit water
Josué:all over my laptop while you show me.
Link:In in theory, same answer as Lara. In context, I think a younger version of myself seeing me currently would be like, damn, still alive. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting.
Lara:Yeah. Mhmm. Oh, yeah. I'll echo that one. Mhmm.
Link:Yeah. Yeah. That's the I don't know.
Marc:It's like, damn, we got old.
Link:Yeah. That's like the nicer way of framing that I think is the wow, we got old instead of the wow, we didn't kill ourselves. That's so cool. What about you, Josue?
Josué:I'm thinking of a younger version of myself that, like, hated the world, and had an idea of what the future needed to look like in terms of safety, security, stability, money. This is a young version of me, maybe like high school. I think if that person saw me now, they would be very disappointed, but it would be because they don't understand that eventually, learned not to compromise my values. And so to him, it might seem like I'm not successful in the ways that he envisioned. But I would argue with him that he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
Josué:And that I think that eventually he'll learn that to get those things that he thought were important, he would need to compromise his values.
Link:But also set healthy boundaries.
Josué:Jai Boundaries are a difficult thing. Also, Yeah. I think I think that that's that's the example that came to mind where I think I understand where that younger version is coming from. But much like like the examples you guys have given, like, ultimately, I'm like, I think I'm good. I think I don't I think I've made a lot of decisions that I'm very proud of.
Josué:And I've actually accomplished a lot of things that I'm proud of. Probably the things that I'm most proud of is when I quit something that didn't serve me, when I told somebody to fuck off, basically setting boundaries and and saying, no,
Marc:that
Josué:is not I saw something recently. I saw a video on it was a it was a TEDx talk, and it was called how to make difficult decisions. And that goes into, like, philosophical weighing one decision against the other. But towards the end, she gets to to the point, which is that whenever you have to make difficult decisions, those are the only opportunities you get in life to decide who you are. Easy decisions are easy.
Josué:But when you have difficult decisions, you get to say, what kind of person am I? Who am I? And then you're defined by those decisions. So I feel yeah. I don't think the younger version of me would have understood that.
Josué:Yeah. That's my answer to it. That's why I think that's why I'm resistant to, like, going back to the past. Like, I know I'm such a I don't think I'm at all like I I was before. I think I think I'm a very, very different person over time.
Josué:So, yeah, I don't think I would listen to future me at all. Maybe now maybe now at 40, I might listen to a future me. Nope. I would only listen to them if they told me what I wanted to hear. That's that's probably that's probably because I imagine doing I mean, you know, then last few episodes, we've talked about, like, falling into the same traps again.
Josué:Right? So like, two years ago, I fell into a trap again that I swear I would never fall into again. So if like three years from now, that future version of me or ten years from now, has fallen back into old habits and, like, put himself in another situation. And it's like, you gotta compromise your values so that you can, you know, achieve this, this, and this. Today, I'll be like, fuck you.
Josué:Get out of here, idiot. Have you learned nothing so far? Have you learned nothing? But again, I think that where this is most useful I think this is this is always like a fun activity, but I think where it's most useful, at least I think is in that like reparentification or addressing past traumas and acknowledging that there is a past version of you. Or if you identify that behaviors that you struggle with now, You may not even struggle, but you may not even be aware of it, like fears and and different things that are affecting you and and influencing your beliefs and your thoughts.
Josué:They don't serve you to be able to go back and convince that part of yourself or talk to that person, not necessarily convinced, but have them trust that you've you've you've seen, you've learned that there's a better way, or you've learned that there's a different way, and you can you can adjust. So Marc, when we tell you, okay? Alright? That lacking boundaries will not serve you. We're just speaking from experience.
Josué:We're just we're just looking out for you. We're saying that when when you learn finally, I don't remember when I learned. I don't know when Laura learned to set boundaries or better boundaries. Things got better. We didn't look so tired.
Josué:I don't know how tired we look right now. I have no idea. I messed up the intro like four times today.
Marc:Listen, once you find out that age
Lara:fall asleep in the middle of this episode. So
Marc:Once once you find out that age, you can get back to me and then then I'll decide if I wanna stick to the current timeline or if I wanna try to change that and adapt it, you know?
Link:It's tomorrow. What? Make your decision now, Marc. What path will you choose?
Josué:Don't honest I honestly do not know, and only Marc maybe knows this, is if Blara and I or I have actually influenced you in any way whatsoever, right? Or if everything is just coincidence. But it is very interesting to see your trajectory and that you keep hitting the same beats as us, but just earlier in your life. Like, you're much younger as you've been doing these different things, that you will accomplish things that we did, but at a younger age. So I wonder if you're just fast forwarding.
Link:Does mean that you're also speedrunning your wisdom. So
Marc:Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Hey. Yeah.
Marc:It's it is I do think about that sometimes, especially when we have, like, conversations like this where we really kind of put emphasis on the fact that I am a younger version of the both of you guys. Because honestly, I I think I think it is that you like, a lot of it is that, yes, you guys have influenced me. You know, when I found geek therapy for myself and started listening, this was all I consumed. This was really the mainstream media that I consumed for, I wanna say, like thirteen months straight. I was listening to it nonstop.
Marc:And I've made I've made the joke where, like, my the voice in my head was no longer my voice. It was your voice. And that's who was telling me things that I should or should not be doing. Should I buy these Pokemon cards or should I hold off on it? And as stuff.
Marc:Exactly. The important stuff. And then as I started talking to you guys more, as I kinda became more involved and wanting to do things with the organization and us having these conversations, like, I think in in some way, shape or form, like, yes, you guys have influenced me. And also, I think it was kinda like the the my life kinda telling me that, like, I I needed to meet you guys when I did because it served as a, like, a to me, I I view it as, a mentorship where you guys have kind of like provided me the data and I've drawn my own conclusions from said data. Now sometimes those conclusions are, Marc, you're fucking stupid.
Marc:What are you doing? Sometimes it's like, alright. Yeah. Okay. I I see what you're going.
Marc:I see what you're doing. And also, here's more data so that I can call you stupid later. But, like, that's
Josué:To be fair, the only reason the only reason we may think that sometimes is because you didn't finish reading the book, and you just started following the strategy guide, and you didn't see what happens after. Exactly.
Marc:No. That's exactly what I
Josué:do. Mhmm.
Marc:I was like I'm like, oh, what? What's this? Alright. Let's just go with it. Who cares about what comes next?
Marc:I'm just gonna I'll figure it out later. I'll figure it out as I go along with it. But, no, I think, honestly, it was it's one of those things where, like, you guys needed to come in and I needed to be introduced to the topics and to you guys and and meet you guys when I needed it. And this is what kinda solidified my trajectory on this branching variation of your guys' lives. And so now you guys can look back and cringe at all my decisions because chances are you made those decisions.
Marc:So not only can you guys provide words of wisdom to me, but I can also, in some way, shape, or form, pay it back with kindness by reminding you of all the decisions you've made in your life.
Link:You're providing you're providing an opportunity for Josue and Lara to practice radical kindness to their younger selves in their child's trauma therapy work.
Marc:Do some very great self reflection.
Josué:In all seriousness, a big part of key therapy is seeing what is possible, even if that's in fictional media. But also in the real world, it's also professionally, like, hey, you can do these things. And I didn't know I could do them at your age because there was no geek therapy. There was no organization that did that. Right?
Josué:Like, at whatever age I met Lara, right? Like, that's the first time we had conversations about like doing this stuff professionally, you know? And there were people at that presentation that were like, I had no idea I could do that. I do. That
Lara:that was eleven years ago that I met you.
Josué:I know. But you were older than than what what Marc is now. Right? Like, Marc got the got to see that way, way earlier. And I didn't again, I didn't I didn't have it at all.
Josué:Right? Like, I had to had to build that. So in a way, I'm I'm I understand, like, what you're saying, and I'm and I'm, like, I'm glad that we can because it's visible, you it's it's about seeing what's possible. And you were like, oh, that's what I'm gonna do now. I don't have to wait until later.
Josué:Right? So I think that's why you're doing everything sooner. Like you said, like, I have this data now. I have this information. I know what's possible.
Josué:Let me give it a shot. Plus, by doing it earlier, you have more time to clean up if it's if it's gets messy. Mhmm. Mhmm. Plus, keep learning from us as we continue on that path.
Josué:You get to keep eventually, you'll be able to learn to avoid or or or not certain things.
Link:I don't I don't think you ever escaped that. I think being alive means you eat shit sometimes. Yep. Mhmm.
Josué:Life is eating shit. It's just about choosing which shit to eat. Yep. True. Alright.
Josué:Closing thoughts. Marc, anything else you wanna add to to this?
Marc:No. I mean, I thought this was a really great conversation, and it it allows for some not only some great self reflection, but also like, I think like the topic of going in either into the future or into the past to take a look at a different version of yourself and kind of seeing those different examples and how it's played out was, like, really cool and interesting, brought up a lot of old memories for me, surprised myself with the media that I struggled to think about the day before and it all came out. But, no, I thought this was a really great conversation. So nice. Link.
Link:My closing thought is to people who listen to this in the future, heed our warning. And to the people in the past who listened to this, hey, guess what, fuckers? We're alive. Yeah.
Josué:It is it is funny to think, like, if someone starts listening at episode one, and then they're like, oh, 400 episodes later, our opinions may have changed, and a lot has changed. Yeah. Lara?
Lara:A message for future me who will never listen to this podcast because I never listen to my own voice on these podcasts. I hope I don't screw it up too bad for you.
Josué:Apologize right now. Apologize just in case.
Lara:Hedging my bed. I make no promises tomorrow. I can screw this all over. It's
Link:a To my future self. I'm sorry. Also, you're welcome.
Josué:Oh, that's great. Alright. Well, let us know. What would you say to your past self or what would your past self think of your current self? And also any media examples that kind of help with this with this topic.
Josué:Let us know in our community spaces, which you can find in the show notes. For more geek therapy visit geektherapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good. We'll be back next week.
Lara:Bye.
Josué:Geek Therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.
