Two Men Called Josué and Marc Discuss "A Man Called Otto"
Welcome to GTE Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona, and I'm joined today by Marc Cuiriz. Yellow. Just you and me, Marc.
Marc:It is. We haven't had one of these kind of episodes in a while.
Josué:In a long time. Yeah. Even a few years back when we were younger. Yeah. Young young, very young men.
Marc:It's been so long. My voice has even changed.
Josué:Yeah. We don't longer have that youthful glow.
Marc:Unfortunately, not.
Josué:Oh, alright. So you saw a movie that is very interesting. Think very, very good to to touch on. It seems like it covers a whole bunch of interesting topics. So I think this is one of those where, like, if you haven't like, we're gonna spoil it completely.
Josué:So if you haven't watched it, just stick around anyway, you know. We'll give you a quick quick mini synopsis so to see if maybe you wanna go watch it and come back. But feel free to stick around while we're talking about the different themes. So we're talking about a movie called a man The Man Called Auto? A man called Auto.
Marc:A man.
Josué:Yeah. This is the 2022 version starring Tom Hanks. I believe there's a 2015 version as well. And then it's all based on you know, they're both based on a book of the same name. And so do you wanna give a synopsis or do you want me to
Marc:read one from the Internet? I you know, I I did synopsis for my other podcast. You know, I can I can do it? I can do it.
Josué:So Let's do it.
Marc:So A Man Called Otto, basically, it follows the story of this man called Otto. And he's kinda navigating through life, or in this case, he's trying to plan and basically complete suicide, because his wife had passed and he wants to be with her. And even though he makes multiple attempts, they're usually thwarted or they fail in some capacity by his neighbors. And it's kinda going through his journey of going through grief and loss and coming to terms with the fact that even though his wife is gone, you know, life still goes on. And it's kinda going through all these different stages in him in his experiences with this and his interactions with his neighbors and his friends.
Marc:Okay.
Josué:Yep. Seems pretty accurate. Yeah. So alright. So so I'm curious.
Josué:What what themes do you wanna touch on first? What what do you what made you wanna talk about it the most?
Marc:Yeah. So I had watched this movie the other day. It's funny because the only reason why I picked this movie to watch, because my wife and I were looking for something to watch, was the fact that someone that I knew was actually in the movie, and he had was advertising for it. And I wanted to go see it and never had an opportunity to. So I was like, sure.
Marc:Let's let's watch this. Mainly because they wanted to do wanted to see him in the movie. And then as we watched the movie, it got very interesting, and it was kind of touching on the idea of of suicide and, like, the kind of, like, the thoughts and the, like, the meticulous like, how meticulous it can be and how thought how thought out it can be, how detailed it can be in terms of, like, what a person wants to like, what a person will do if when their mind is, like, set on that for whatever reason they might have. Yeah. And throughout this whole movie and kind of seeing the slow changes and seeing his interactions despite what he had his heart and and what he was intent set out and intended on doing, he still kept doing all these other things for other people.
Marc:So it was interesting for me to see how his heart and mind was set on doing this one thing, and yet a lot of his actions seems to kind of prove otherwise or show otherwise, which I thought was really interesting. And then, you know, that as the movie progresses, it touches more on that grief and and loss and kind of having to face that. But that's something we can kind of get into a little bit later. For me, it was really like, that's really interesting how this man who really wants to die Yeah. Despite, you know, having all the means and access and everything like that, he still goes out of his way to help, you know, around him.
Josué:Right. So, I mean and and maybe we'll talk about other movies later or other examples as well. But the but the way that this one presents it, like, Otto is his wife died six months ago. His he was basically pushed out of his position, right, like put out to pastor at his job. So kind of a forced retirement.
Josué:And in addition to that, like, he's I guess he's very grumpy now. Right? It's just him, you know, like things. He doesn't really like the way things are going. And he's also sick.
Josué:We don't know how much that has affected him throughout his life other than when he wants to join the military. They told him that he couldn't because his heart was too big. And they like, so he's got all of these things going for him. And then there's also well, this other part, I'm I'm not so sure about. But but all of these things are true.
Josué:And then like you said, he is he's decided, I'm done. And he when he visits his wife's grave, right, he says multiple times at the moment, like, like, I'm coming soon. Like, I'll join you in a minute. Like Mhmm. And and at the beginning of the movie, he sets up everything to like, he's very thoughtful.
Josué:He disconnects all his utilities. Right? He kind of leaves everything ready. And then and then we see multiple attempts at ending his life. But like you said, it is premeditated.
Josué:It is it is he's got detailed plans. And as you see throughout the movie, he's got backup plans as well on how to do it. So like, he he has he knows how he's gonna do it. He's got everything laid out. Right?
Josué:It's it's not a a sudden thing. Right? Like, he's he's thought about this. He's made a decision. And then every time, and I yes.
Josué:Every single time in the movie that he is in the middle of a suicide attempt, something happens Mhmm. And interrupts it. And then what you're saying is that once it's interrupted, he goes and basic like, if it's a neighbor knocking on the door, he goes and responds to the neighbor. Or if it's something else that happens, he goes and responds. And so so it is interesting.
Josué:Right? That it's like I'm curious how you see it. I don't I don't wanna say how I see it first, but I'm trying to understand exactly what, like, what you're getting at in that in that piece.
Marc:Yeah. So for me, like, what I thought was really interesting was how despite all this and, like, despite all this premeditation and, like, him want like, being so set on this. Like, in the very beginning of the movie, he's arguing with the cashier about the amount of money he's spending on the length of rope that he bought. He's like, don't want six feet. I want five feet.
Marc:And he's fighting over, you know, pennies and dimes even with, like, the utility companies about being charged for the rest the month, and he's like, well, I've only I only use this many days. I should be refunded for these two days, but it's like, you're Yeah. You're gonna die. Or that's what he that's what his plan is. Right?
Marc:That's what he wants.
Josué:Yeah.
Marc:And yet at the same time, like, he really wants to join his wife. He really wants to be with his wife because he's he can't really cope with that loss of losing her after all these years. And yet, when the new neighbors come in, he's like, no. No. No.
Marc:I have to help out. I have to do this. Or when these nursing home or or retirement home people, I'm thinking of more nursing home people come in and they're, like, messing up everything. He's like, you get like, you need to stop. Like, this is I I this is set up for a reason.
Marc:You need to be following the rules, all these things. And even then, like, it's not like he tries something, he fails, and then immediately tries another route. He he tries, he fails, he helps, and that goes on for a little bit, and then he tries again. But even then, it's like, oh, no. No.
Marc:No. But I'm gonna help you first. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just take this.
Marc:Okay. Just use this. But then try. And then fails again, interrupted again, and then it's just forget about it. Because, I mean, if he was really if he really wanted that sort of thing to happen, he wouldn't answer the door.
Marc:He wouldn't open up the garage door. He would just stay there because he was already kind of, like, on his way out because he was I mean, the movie does it stylistically where, like, he starts having, like, he starts remembering, you know, how he met his wife and everything like that. And then it cuts off because someone's banging on the door. Someone's knocking. Someone's doing something.
Marc:And in every single one of those cases, then, like, if he really wanted that, he wouldn't he wouldn't bother answering. He'd just leave it because either way, it's gonna happen. But he chooses to interrupt it. He chooses to stop it because he knows that these people need his help or they're asking for him. And that call to action to help them out is still stronger than his desire to want to be with his wife in that sense of, like, we're both moved on.
Josué:Do you do you believe that that is what the movie is saying? Or is that, like, your read on it?
Marc:That's my
Josué:I feel like it's not explicit.
Marc:Yeah. The movie doesn't explicitly say that, but and that's just what I take from it. That's the meaning I'm taking from it because the movie is really more so, like, I think the movie portrays it more as, like, this isn't the answer. Like, it's kinda portraying that, like, you know, suicide in and of itself is not like, a lot of times these people don't wanna die. They just want to escape from the the grief or the pain that they're experiencing.
Marc:And,
Josué:like Yeah.
Marc:They're just looking for that. And in this case, it's the movie, I think, tries to portray it in the sense of, like, there are other things worth living for. Like, yes, your wife was your whole world, and this was the love of your life, but there's more to life. And there are more things and there are so much more good that you can do for those around you if you open yourself up to it, which he was very much closed off. That's why everybody considered him this this grumpy old man that just lived in the neighborhood.
Josué:Yeah.
Marc:So I think that's what the movie is more so portraying. But to me, I see it more as, like, his call to action to step in and help out the people around him was far greater than his desire to wanna take his own life.
Josué:He he definitely has this, like, sense of right and wrong. Right? I'm like, like, you're doing it wrong. Right? Like, that's not that's not how this should be.
Josué:It should you should charge me by the foot, not by the yard. Right? Like, you should refund me. Like, you should know how to drive. You should put the recycling in the correct bins.
Josué:Mhmm. And like, he comes out every day and he he fixes. He has a, like, a long claw thing where he, like, he reorganizes the the the recycling that people put in the wrong place. So as you're saying it, I can see that maybe he has this, like, he's portrayed as an angry man. And at least in REBT, anger is defined as or the the belief behind anger is that things are not the way you want them to be.
Josué:And I would extend that to like, things are not the way you think they should be. Right? In the in especially in the case of Otto. So he thinks that things should be a certain way. And despite the fact that he is in the middle of a suicide attempt, that trumps his current plans.
Josué:It's almost like he can't let it slide. That's something that's some kind of injustice or or breaking of the rules is happening.
Marc:Yeah. I feel like for him, like, he he had this idea that it's supposed to be peaceful. Like, it's supposed to just peacefully go. And then when someone's knocking on the door or the the anchor that he puts into the ceiling ends up breaking the ceiling and he falls, like, now it's no longer peaceful for him.
Josué:Oh, oh, you mean, like, oh, you ruined it. I wanted to it this way. Now it's ruined.
Marc:Yeah. Like, that's like, no. I had this idea that this is how it's supposed to be. I want to go peacefully, remember my wife, and then join her. But now you're banging on my garage door, and that's so loud, so destructive, I can't focus.
Marc:Fine. I guess I'll just forget this. Or we can even take, like, the train scene, like, he's standing there, and someone is saying, take my hand, and then he just reflects like, he reaches for it. It wasn't like I don't have a reflex or anything because he made that choice to reach out and grab and pull himself up, and then he's like, okay. Fine.
Marc:Just get out of the way. Yeah. And I think as time goes on and he's being more pushed to kinda confront the grief as he starts gearing more towards that part of the grieving process. Like, he he starts really turning to his anger because at that point, he starts, you know, saying forget it all, and then he goes and grabs the shotgun, and he's like, fine. Then I'll just do it like this.
Marc:But then even then, that's thwarted because then he has this internal dialogue with himself, although it's, you know, portrayed as him having a conversation with his wife of like Yeah. You gotta like, you have to keep living. You have to move on.
Josué:Yeah. And then it's interrupted. Yeah. Yeah. So so how do you feel about that?
Josué:Like, I'm I'm assuming maybe I don't know. Have you worked with clients who are suicidal or stating suicidal intention Yeah. Ideation?
Marc:So, I mean, in terms of private practice, since I've graduated, I have not had a client that has expressed that, has endorsed that of any kind. But when I worked at the residential or even now when I'm working at the hospital, I mean, most of my patients are coming in either because they're endorsing suicidal ideation or they've or they've made an attempt at some point. Mhmm. So, like, I do deal with that now pretty frequently at the hospital, but at the residential when I was working with adolescents, like, a lot of these adolescents would state that they had these thoughts. They had these desires.
Marc:And there were instances when when the kids, you know, would try. They would try to at the residential, and then that would lead to them being sent to the hospital or that would lead to more closely monitoring the the patient or the resident. So we definitely have had those instances, and I definitely have had those experiences. I always remember, you know, it's funny because now that we're talking about like, now that I actually have a chance to talk about this movie and kind of process through it Yeah. This reminds me of a a resident that I had when I first started working at the residential.
Marc:It was like my my first batch of kids, basically. And I'll never forget this. She was 17, and she was struggling with depression and sue and suicidal ideation. And I remember checking in with her, you know, just as like I would normally with any other kid and just saying, hey, how you doing? What's going on?
Marc:And she would endorse that she had these thoughts. They're passive and that she was struggling with them because they were pretty intense for her. And she's like, well, I'm doing all of these skills, but I still just have this really hard time deciding on whether or not I want to live or I want to die. And I pointed it out to her.
Josué:I was
Marc:like, you're telling me you have a hard time deciding whether or not you want to live or die. And you know and you know that you have these very intense intrusive thoughts. And yet at the same time, you're also telling me that you're doing all of these skills and you're doing all of these things to prevent them or to try to navigate through them. So I was like, sounds to me like you've already made your decision. I just don't think you are like, I just don't think you've either realized that or you're not quite ready to accept that yet.
Marc:And after we had that conversation, you know, like a week later, she kind of came back and told me that, you know, like she found what we we'd said and what I said was really helpful. She kind of made some more insights and made some realizations of her own. And, you know, now she's thriving in college as a nursing student. So that's like something in like in in this case, like, with Otto. So, like, he throughout majority of the film, he's really struggling.
Marc:He's, you know, very depressed. He's angry, and he's grieving. And it's not until, like, the end of the film when he kinda starts realizing, like, I've been so focused on my own things that I've neglected everything else. And I got so wrapped up in myself and just kept beating myself up for all of these things. Yeah.
Marc:But I realized now that other peep there are other people out there. There are other people that care about me. There are other people that I care about, and I wanna do what I can to help them and basically to show show them or show whatever the obstacle or barrier is who's boss.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. And so do you think he so he didn't realize that maybe he didn't want to die until later? Or do you think he really did or didn't? Like, and I'm asking you, you don't have to answer this question necessarily.
Josué:What I'm thinking about is I remember working with people who would talk about a particular client and be like, Oh, they're just doing that for attention. I saw that in schools a lot, right? It's like, Oh, they're always saying they're gonna kill themselves. They're like, you know, like, whatever, they're not really going to do it. And that used to especially early on, like, it shocked me.
Josué:Right? I was like, what? And then it it it bothered me. But then I I I realized that it is so hard to know, even as a person who is considering suicide. Mhmm.
Josué:But but, like, when you are the people around, like, it's not it's not black and white. It's not easy to read signs. It's not easy to understand what's happening or why people are doing things. It is so complicated, dealing with someone who dealing with suicide.
Marc:Yeah. And I think it gets even harder because we are at a point in time where now that mental health and struggles and dealing with suicide, it has become more of an open topic in conversation, more with like the, you know, the younger generations now. That feels weird to say. I also find that like the dark humor of it Yeah. Is so much more prevalent.
Marc:And so that get in and of itself makes it really hard to start to distinguish because someone can make jokes and can say things about, you know, just, you know, just, I just wanna kill myself or I'm gonna yeet myself out the window or, you know, saying all these types of things. And it gets really hard to tell, like, okay, are you joking? Are you you serious? Like, is this joke masking something else that's happening? Like, where where does it come from?
Marc:And so then as clinicians and as counselors, like, it gets really hard to really gauge that. And I feel like unless, like, you have a really good rapport or relationship with your client, then it's like, at what point do you say, okay, do we have to do we have to check-in? Do we have to go through the CSSRS? Like, all these things of, like, hold on. I need to make sure you're okay.
Marc:And then it's like or or it's like, do you say, like, okay, I know you're joking. I know you're you're not like that. And then in reality, they are like that, but they were so good at masking it. Yeah. Yeah.
Marc:I I know you were asking a question earlier about Otto. And I think, like, for him, throughout a majority of the movie, I think he really did. It wasn't like a cry for attention or anything like that. I think he truthfully wanted this. And it wasn't until what's her name?
Marc:I can't remember her name. The mom. The mom and the the mom that the the the new neighbors that move in. Well, while you're looking that up. Yeah.
Marc:When when she kinda helps
Josué:him Marisol. Marisol.
Marc:Marisol. When Marisol comes in and, you know, she's really there for him and is trying to help him out and is they they kind of grow closer and he grows closer to to her family and all of these things, I think that's when he kinda starts seeing things a little differently. But then that also greatly frustrates him because now he's creating these new relationships, which is now conflicting with his desire to wanna be with his wife because he knows that by further creating these relationships and deepening their connection, that's more incentive for him to stick around instead of joining his wife, which causes him to lash out because now he wants to push it away. And then it isn't until he has that internal conversation with himself, aka his wife, that he kind of starts to realize things. Yeah.
Marc:And then there's another character that comes into play that also kinda helps him see things a little differently.
Josué:Malcolm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Josué:Yeah. I looked up some reviews afterwards to see if I could find the word that I was looking for how I felt about the movie. And I found one, and it said that the movie was tone deaf. And this is how I felt about about particularly the suicide stuff. Mhmm.
Josué:This is meant to be a comedy drama. Right? And so I think that it trivializes suicide
Marc:Mhmm.
Josué:Tremendously. Right? Like, it doesn't take suicide seriously. I'm gonna say at all. I'm gonna I'm gonna go to the extreme.
Josué:It doesn't take it seriously at all. It plays it up for laughs. Right? Like, oh, you miss with the shotgun. It's like, yeah, you know, I need to get the ceiling you know, and it's like supposed to be funny, like, oh, he got interrupted again.
Josué:Like, you keep repeating the same joke. But I was like, this man is in the middle of a suicide attempt. Nobody knows it. We're not at like, we're not addressing that until way, way, way later on in the movie.
Marc:Mhmm.
Josué:And, like, what I'm seeing is a man who's suffering and is being annoyed.
Marc:Yeah.
Josué:And then and then the the what what what I was thinking so I I thought it was tone deaf in that way. And it made me feel it felt and again, I don't know. I I don't I don't I'm not saying that it is. But to me, it felt like an unrealistic portrayal Mhmm. Of and and it's it's the stuff you mentioned.
Josué:It's like, wait a minute. Why did you why did you stop and and go answer the door? Mhmm. Because even the idea that, oh, he the reason like, he found a reason to maybe wait till the next day because there was a problem that he could fix and he liked fixing problems. He didn't know what it was until he went and answered the door.
Josué:Like, he could've like, when he missed with a shotgun because somebody knocked on the door that that same moment, he could've just reloaded and gone again. Like, they weren't gonna come into the house. Mhmm. He could've he could have everything. Right?
Josué:He could have every instance he could have tried. Again, with the car when he was doing the thing with the car, like, he didn't have to answer the door. He could have just he could have just stayed there. So that seemed again, I feel like that trivialized it. And it seemed unrealistic to me that he would do that repeatedly.
Josué:Mhmm. Or that, like, you know, why wouldn't you do it at night when if these people have already interrupted you two, three times, why would you do something in the middle It was it was things like that. So all of that it seemed it seemed again, like, were playing it up for laughs. Like, we were making like, how can we make suicide funny? And I feel like I didn't address suicide.
Josué:It didn't take it seriously. Yeah. And then the other part is that I feel like maybe maybe towards the end, it addresses how much he's suffering Mhmm. Directly. Like, we see it.
Josué:Right? Like like, we see that he's suffering. And, again, I'm watching this movie, and I'm thinking, I understand why this man has chosen to end his life. And I'm seeing a man who is suffering and wants to end that suffering. He wants to be close to his wife again.
Josué:And then but again, but then you kind of just like play it up for laughs and then have him be this, you know, grumpy neighbor that goes around and you've got these cookie neighbors all around and you've got the the, you know, the family bugging him and and and all this stuff. And then it just like, it just it just doesn't give I feel like it's disrespectful to the character of Otto. Mhmm. Where it's like, we don't care. And this is where I found the movie to be.
Josué:And again, this is this is how I felt. This is how I felt about it. I felt the movie was very preachy. And then it goes to that point of like, well, it doesn't matter. Like, it felt very, like, Christian in a way.
Josué:I'm like, I don't care what your reason is. It's not valid. It doesn't matter. That's not something that we do. And we're going to talk about all these other things.
Josué:And it doesn't matter. And then sure, at the end, right, he finally talks about his whole life and what he's feeling like and and and what he's ready and what he wants to do. And then I feel like it trivializes it even more. Anyway, that was my that was my overall feeling. Feel like I trivialize suicide a lot.
Josué:And there's little things like, I'll watch a TV show where they even there's even a hint of a suicide attempt. And you'll see resources and and and a phone number or at least there's something, you know, like that. And this movie, again, I just played it up for laughs. And and and I did not appreciate that. That really bothered me.
Josué:Mhmm. Yeah.
Marc:You know, you mentioned all that, and I I I agree with you. And I think that's kind of the reason why I didn't have as much of an emotional reaction to the movie Mhmm. As my wife. Because she was, like, crying throughout the whole movie. She thought it was, like, a very heartfelt movie.
Marc:It's really good. Although, we both questioned why it was labeled a comedy. It's like this this does not feel like a comedy at all. Like, I didn't
Josué:They tried to make it feel like a comedy. Yeah.
Marc:Yeah. I I I didn't chuckle. I didn't I didn't really giggle. I you know, I was just watching the movie, but I I feel like I understood what was happening and I understood what was going on. And I do agree with you that it does feel a bit preachy of like, no, it's not the answer.
Marc:Like, absolutely. It doesn't matter what your reasonings are. It doesn't matter about any of that. Like, there are so many things worth living in this life for the you know, worth living for. But I I I was kinda struggling with that.
Marc:I was like, I feel like I would have had at least some sort of emotional reaction or or some kind of, you know, feeling towards the movie. Yeah. And I didn't. Yeah. I just kinda sat there straight faced the whole time.
Marc:Like, I was like, okay. Like, this is I mean, I enjoyed the movie. Like, I you know, it was it was a good like, I didn't regret not watching it or anything like that. But I was like, Alright. Guess time for bed.
Marc:Like, didn't really give it much of a second thought until you were like, hey, you're up for picking a topic. And I was like, well, okay. I just saw this movie, and it does touch on a lot of these things. It does. Yeah.
Marc:So I think it was where it is worth bringing up and we're talking about. But I do agree that there are some things where they just kinda I feel like it's just kinda thrown in there. Mhmm. And I'm like, why did this need to be like a a point? Yeah.
Marc:Like, why why does this have to be thing?
Josué:Yeah. It I don't get the impression the movie didn't give me the impression that he wanted to be a hero. No.
Marc:He did not.
Josué:It it didn't give me the impression that he even wanted to be liked or even appreciated. Mhmm. He just wanted things, like, just be a particular way. He wanted to I I would say he likes to take care of the people he cares about, but that's pretty much it. Right?
Josué:Mhmm. I And think there are examples of, like, he doesn't want the attention. He doesn't want, like, anything. Just, like, just do it right and leave me alone. Like, you you mentioned that, like, he just wants some peace, you know?
Josué:Like Yeah. He wants things in order, and and that's who he is. And and so sure. At the end of the movie, it's like, oh, Otto's a hero, and and and that's great. But, like, is that what I kept thinking about what he wanted.
Josué:And I'm not saying that suicide that he should have gotten what he wanted, but it's what he wanted and the movie never acknowledged. I feel like it never acknowledged his desire because yeah. I I don't feel that he was only it wasn't because the movie didn't even frame it as, like, I want to get away from everything. It's like, I wanna go toward my my wife. Like, it was even framing that in a positive sense, and then it doesn't it doesn't give it any time.
Josué:It's like, Otto, shut up. You can't do that. That's not allowed. You know?
Marc:Yeah. I I I think it's like, ultimately, I feel like what Otto really wanted was just peace. Like, he just he just wanted to to just be at peace, and he doesn't ultimately get that until the very end when he does eventually pass, and it's, you know, just due to his heart condition. But yeah. Like, even, like, all of a sudden he has a cat, and he's like he's just like he he goes and visits his wife with the cat, and he's like, I got a cat now, so I'm gonna be a while.
Marc:Yeah. And I'm like
Josué:it it seemed like I don't think he he didn't seem like he wanted any of this. Right? Everything was imposed upon him. And he was like, well, I guess I gotta like, Marisol, the character, I think she's great. Also, annoying.
Josué:I would've I would've never given her
Marc:I would've I would've given her the ladder. I would've driven her to the hospital, and then, that would've been it. Like, nope. Sorry. You can learn how to drive by anybody else.
Marc:I'm not teaching you how to drive.
Josué:Yep. Yep. Exactly. Like like yeah. Like, even the the the ladder was pushing it.
Marc:Yeah.
Josué:Because at that point, like, yeah, she gave him the food and stuff. But, like, everything else I mean and and this is just a funny thing, but the fact that the girls called him Abuelo Auto, like, by by day two Mhmm. That was ridiculous.
Marc:Yeah. No. Was cute credit.
Josué:It was absurd.
Marc:Yeah. I was like, you're you're bringing this gringo into the house and you're just calling him Abuelo, like Yeah.
Josué:They call
Marc:him Abuelo. Then And has him then they have him babysitting?
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well and again, it's like, oh, like, Otto, do this. And it's also again, there was this this element of which, again, maybe I'm more of a a curmudgeonly old man than Otto is.
Josué:But I'm like, I don't care that you're my neighbor. That doesn't immediately mean that you can come over for dinner anytime, that you can call me whenever whenever you need something, that I can just stay over and babysit your kids. These are, like, two little girls. What do you what do you don't know this old man. Mhmm.
Josué:You don't you don't know? It's like it's too trusting. It's too I don't know. And everybody's like this. Yeah.
Josué:Again, he didn't seem to want any of that No.
Marc:At all.
Josué:He didn't ask. I think he ultimately appreciated Marisol and and and the kids and all that, but he didn't want that. Nope. And and again, that's where I feel like the movie's preachy. It's like, you never know.
Josué:Like, look what life has for you. A cat that you hated for weeks, and then Yeah. Now just it's not the cat doesn't even do anything for him. Like, the cat just The cat just food. Yeah.
Marc:Now he has to spend more money on the cat.
Josué:Now he's gotta spend more money on the cat.
Marc:Yeah. Like Yeah. No. He he asked for literally none of this. Yeah.
Marc:Literally asked for none of it. And I found it so funny that, like, he had the cat and he was like, okay. Guess it's here. And then he goes on and, like, with, like, with Marisol and her husband, she's like, yeah. He's an idiot.
Marc:And then, like, it just randomly pans and she's got two degrees. And it's like, okay. Great. So she's she's smart. She she knows like, she's got these degrees in Latin literature.
Marc:So, you know, she's, in his words, not an idiot.
Josué:Not an idiot.
Marc:Great. Love that. Has no relevance to the story. Nope. And then they have this side story too with his best friend that he's got beef with simply because he liked Ford better.
Marc:And then his son goes to Japan and then he gets a Toyota, and he's like, no. That's it. We're done. Like, it's it was so very, like, type a personality of, like, I this is how things are supposed to be. This is what's right.
Marc:This is what's wrong. Yep. He's wrong.
Josué:He was coded that way. He was coded maybe autistic as well.
Marc:Like, something thought that a little bit. Yeah.
Josué:But then that makes me even madder where it's like, if if that's how they wrote him and they're like, well, you're autistic. You don't know. Like, you don't know what's best for you. Like, that it that felt demeaning to to his character. Like, I I feel like he had no the one piece of autonomy that he he was trying to take was taken away from him throughout the entire movie.
Josué:Mhmm. And again, like, this is this is the suicide is a complicated topic. Right? But just like overall, like, you can't have what you want. Like, this is all like, look how beautiful the world is.
Josué:Like, Jimmy, the neighbor, he said at one point, I used to come over for dinner every day. Right? So I mean, Sonya would cook and invite Jimmy over. That means up to six months ago, that guy was in their house every day. He doesn't come over anymore.
Josué:Otto doesn't even wanna walk with him. Like, go on a walk with
Marc:him. Yeah. He does he's that. Honestly, if I was living in that neighborhood, I probably would be just as grumpy as Otto. Like, you guys are just annoying the hell out of me.
Marc:Like, keep it down. Just leave me alone.
Josué:I rented that house out long time ago.
Marc:Yeah. I was like, no. You know what? Let me move across the street to the new condos, you know?
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Any I mean, there there are the things that are silly about the movie, but I'm, you know, I don't. This isn't a critique of of everything of the movie. I liked Tom Hank Tom Hanks and his portrayal.
Josué:I liked him enough that everything that happened to him infuriated me. And I'm not saying I was rooting for him to kill himself, but I was rooting for him to have a happy ending Mhmm. Which I don't know that he got a happier ending at the end than he would have at the beginning just because everything felt so forced upon him. And I think that's the part that that bothered me the most. And and maybe maybe the, like, the takeaway here is we struggle so much with like, it's so difficult to help someone who is suicidal.
Josué:Mhmm. Right? Like, it's unclear for them, and it's it's it may be impossible for you who are trying to support with what it is that they need or what it is that they want. Like, what can help? And it's possible that nothing will help.
Josué:Right? Like, nothing you can do will make a difference. And it's so it's so hard to yeah. It's so hard to to tackle. It is it is one of the things that I am I was always, still am, extremely cautious with and, like like, it it it does make me anxious to be in a position yeah, I have I have lots of feelings and some of them, I don't know.
Josué:Like, mom died last year, and my mom was very sick for a very long time. And we talked about euthanasia, which is doctor assisted suicide. That is and that's part of what I was thinking about him about Otto at the beginning, which is medically assisted, right, doctor assisted suicide. That is to give the the idea in in in The United States even, they call them death with death with dignity laws. Mhmm.
Josué:Have you heard them describe that? I not
Marc:heard them described that way.
Josué:Okay. So so it's not legal in every state, but but it they're they're it's called death with dignity. The idea is that instead of waiting for the cancer to eat you up or for whatever sickness to just destroy you, that you can die with dignity. You can die how you want to die and at the moment that you choose. And that is illegal in many, many states.
Josué:In in a way, I mean, this movie feels like an anti death with dignity law movie made by conservative by a conservative political and religious group. I don't know that any of this is true. I I this is just my feeling about it. And the idea of Death with Dignity, right, like like, putting it around my my mom's situation. She was very sick, and we we discussed euthanasia many times.
Josué:Like, ultimately, she didn't do that. And I don't think she died the way she would have liked to. We talked about, like, how do you die with dignity? And I think I feel like Otto was deprived of that. Yes.
Josué:He was sick. He wasn't so sick that he was going to I mean, actually, you know, in the movie, he did die die, like, six months later. And we don't know that he we don't know that he knew that he was gonna die in six months. Like, I they never said if his condition was worsened. Right?
Josué:They never said that.
Marc:He he lived for three more years because he Three? Yeah. Because they because, like, when he driving the the new truck, like, you see the seasons passing.
Josué:Oh, it's just that the kid, like, the toddler, like, he he didn't get old.
Marc:Yeah. But they, like Maybe
Josué:the baby.
Marc:The baby, think, was turning three, that's when they
Josué:Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay.
Marc:I think that's when, like, they noticed that, like, oh, you know, he didn't shovel his
Josué:Okay.
Marc:His sidewalk.
Josué:Okay. That changes that changes it a little bit. But still, like, did he know like, they had he already been told, like, you don't have long to live?
Marc:I don't think they did. I think they they just was like, hey. Like, this is something that's going to affect him and, like, we don't know exactly when, but it is Yeah. Going to impact, you know, him now now that it's acting up. Yeah.
Marc:Or now that he had a heart attack or something.
Josué:Like, they don't say explicitly, I've never read the book. So let's say let's say that let's go with your right. Right. With with your assessment. Right?
Josué:Your your your version of it. Just like, hey. Maybe. Who knows? Right?
Josué:He didn't get, like, like, a terminal date or anything like that. That's not enough to to I'm not an expert on these laws either, but I don't think that that's enough to be granted permission for a death with dignity within within The United States. I don't know in other countries.
Marc:Mhmm.
Josué:He'd have to be, like, within a certain amount of time that, you know, multiple doctors confirm that he only has this long to live. And then instead of suffering, you can you get to choose.
Marc:Yeah. I feel like that's when, like, you're confined to, like, the hospital. Like, you like, you're basically on hospice.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Or it's extremely painful and suffering. And so I I mean, I think grief is very painful. Right?
Josué:Loss is very painful. He he was going through a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, that's not enough. But that that is that was the frame that I was seeing it through. Like, whether you agree or disagree with suicide, I saw it as a man who's like whose dignity was deprived, was was denied Mhmm.
Josué:And who with his his the movie portrayed it as somebody who had who didn't have autonomy, who just went along with whatever other people were doing at the cost of his own thing. And that did not seem like, that did not make me happy for him. In fact, as the movie went on, every time, it was it was sadder for me. That's what went on.
Marc:Yeah. You know, I I think I made this joke when we watched the movie because it it just it popped into my head. But, like, right when he decides, like, hey. I wanna, like, actually start living and and and wanting to help my friends and and those around me, that's when the heart problem kicked in.
Josué:And and I I It's funny. My heart problems would have started with all these neighbors bugging me all the time for sure.
Marc:Exactly. So, like, right when he decides like, hey, I'm gonna start living. I'm actually gonna start doing these things to help those around me and those that have been there for me. And then he has the heart problem and he goes to the hospital. I was like, and the Grinch's heart grew three sizes that day.
Marc:Like, that's exactly what my thought heart my my mind went to. I just started thinking that. I was like, wow. He finally decides to start caring and wanting to help his friend who's about to get sent away to a nursing home because his son is supposedly power of attorney. And then man goes in and gets put in the hospital.
Marc:Like, wow. And he has an enlarged heart. It it it was like the perfect analogy for me. I was like, yep. This is this is it.
Marc:And now here is the ramifications for that. Yeah. That was a little joke that that came to me when I watched the movie, which is probably the only time I actually chuckled, and it was at my own joke.
Josué:At your own joke?
Marc:But, no, I I think I'm I'm I'm agreeing with a lot of what you're saying. And ultimately, I feel like this is why, like, this movie to me was like, this is a movie worth talking about because Yeah. Yeah. One of the way it was labeled, two of the way they chose like, the directorial choice of how they chose to portray these scenes and these actions. Because like you said, like, suicides is a very complicated and difficult topic to address and talk through.
Marc:And for a movie like this where it is the central point of the whole film and you are showing at least four failed attempts Yeah. And you're trying to pass it off as like a like, the running gag in the in the movie? Like yeah. Yes. It's not like it's not like they're trying to make it super comedic because it is a serious thing, but I don't think, like, they did a good a enough job of of showing that, like, no.
Marc:But, like, this is serious. Like, if he completes, like, that's it.
Josué:I'd I'd as you were speaking, I I just had the realization because I had said like it's trivial. I feel it's trivialized. Mhmm. But I read while you're speaking, I realized they never never check fact check me here. They never say the word suicide.
Josué:They never say the word kill yourself. They never even say the word death. The only time that he ever makes reference to it is when he said, I disconnected the phone because I was planning on joining her. They didn't even they never even referred to it explicitly.
Marc:Yeah. You're right. I can't think of it. I think I
Josué:think that was ago. I can't think of it. No.
Marc:I think I think that's what I think that's what he said. And then even in his goodbye letter, he is like, I didn't do anything stupid. Yeah. Like, you're reading this, no. I didn't do anything stupid.
Josué:But so so a movie that has how many suicide attempts? There's a there's the hanging Hanging. The car.
Marc:The car. There's the train.
Josué:The train and the shotgun.
Marc:And the shotgun. So four. There's a total of four attempts that he makes.
Josué:Four suicidal attempts, and they never mention the word suicide or killing yourself or anything. Nothing.
Marc:Not even, like, take my life.
Josué:Not even take my life.
Marc:Or anything like that. It's I want to join her.
Josué:And and that that's the same words that he used when he went to, like, when he went to the grave. He would say, I'll I'll join you soon. Mhmm. So see, so that's why, like, I feel like it doesn't not only did it trivialize it, it
Marc:Shied away from it.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. It was like It
Marc:it pulled away from it. It didn't like, it it knew it had to show up because otherwise, like, what's the point of the movie?
Josué:Oh, we can't say the word.
Marc:Exactly. We don't wanna say the word. We don't wanna we don't wanna spook people. Like, this supposed to be a funny movie. Yeah.
Marc:But I really don't think it should have been labeled as a comedy at all. I feel like if you really wanted to get a full effect of this movie, it should have been more of, like, a drama where it, like, it really dives deep into that perspective of this is a man that has decided that he would rather end his own life than have to deal and live with a life without his wife, who was his whole who to him was his entire world. That's who he lived for because his parents died when he was young. He was by himself until he met her.
Josué:Yeah. That is not this movie because to make it that movie, you'd have to remove Jimmy, Marisol, Tommy, the girls, Mark Bebiglia doing the the evil real estate company that violates HIPAA laws and
Marc:No. It's a it was a nursing I think it was a nursing home.
Josué:No. No. No. No. No.
Josué:No. So so this is the part where it's it's so funny. First of all, like, it's like a comedic actor, right, playing the the bad guy. He is he represents the real estate company, Die and America. Right?
Josué:But whatever what I don't know what what they're trying to say there. Right? But they are a real estate company that is trying to buy out the properties. And then at the end, they show that he that the company says somehow been getting, private health information from the residents or about the residents, not from them, about them, and using it against them. Now, this part is just ridiculous.
Josué:Yeah. That whole This sounds odd. It's so weird. It makes no sense. And the way people use social media, like, like, it it really takes you out of the movie.
Josué:But at this point, what what, you know, what is
Marc:the matter? End of the movie. So, like, at this point, you're already been in for a trip.
Josué:But, like, this is happening throughout the the movie that this company is using, like, oh, we found out that you have a hard problem, Otto. And he's like, how do you know that? Right? And he found out that this this person has Parkinson's, so he's using that against her to take her house. Right?
Josué:So so obviously, very illegal. Right? Again, this is like from us in the mental health or in the health professions. We're like, what? You can't just like, how are you getting their personal information?
Josué:And they they address that at the end. But the whole the whole that evil part but but it's like it's played by a comedic actor. It's it's it's a goofy premise to like, the big like, the the villain in the movie is is basically has a very goofy villainous plan. And so you'd have to remove all of those things.
Marc:Or you'd play have it. You'd have to portray them very differently. Like, all the quirky gags that they did, like falling off a ladder or not being able to install a dishwasher. Like, all that would have to go.
Josué:Marisol would have had to be complete completely differently. Right? But she could have been played, like, I don't know, like, maybe she could have been a maybe she was a hospice worker. Right? And she moves in and, like, she recognizes some signs in him and starts spending time with him.
Josué:And maybe, you know, like, sure, maybe she interrupts him by accident, or maybe she starts doing it on purpose, you know, like Mhmm. But everything yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is very far from that drum dramatic movie you described.
Marc:Yeah. Or or have her be like that frazzled overworked mom because she's pregnant and she's the one with the education. Like, play it as as something like that where, like, they kinda connect over, like, you know, over, like, I don't know. I I something along those lines. They they find something that they connect on of, maybe both just being really tired of the life that they're living.
Marc:Yeah. I don't know. They build a bomb that way. But I feel like if yeah. And and I feel like there are some things too that they included them.
Marc:Like, again, why did that need to be there? Like, the whole plot with Malcolm, like, I get the point. It's like, oh, yeah. This was his wife, and and she was the first person to accept Malcolm for who who they were. Great.
Marc:I love it. What does that have to do with Otto's story right now? Like Yeah.
Josué:I Well, we we needed we needed a different person to interrupt the third suicide attempt.
Marc:Fourth.
Josué:Fourth? That was the last one?
Marc:Yeah. That
Josué:was the last one.
Marc:Because that's when he got so frazzled and upset that he wanted to push everybody away and then boom, boom, boom. Hey, I got kicked out Yeah. Because x y z. I'm like
Josué:Yeah. Cool. Great.
Marc:But why? Yeah. Like, it didn't I don't know. It didn't quite feel necessary. And, I mean, I haven't read the book, and now I'm very interested and I kinda wanna read it because I wanna know, like, how different is the book?
Marc:Like, does the book make it more of, like, an intense, like, type of book or or type of story? Or is it kind of the same where it it talks about these things, but then it has these quirky little gags? Yeah. Like, I I don't know. I'm really curious.
Marc:I'd I'd love to actually read it and and figure out what how the tone is in the book.
Josué:Yeah. It yeah. It ultimately, I you know, from the GT lens, we're talking about media and we're talking about mental health. I I I feel it was tone deaf to very serious issues. I feel it was, like, irresponsible in many ways.
Josué:It just felt it just felt weird. Again, like, I couldn't get that part out of my out of my mind in terms of in terms of the representation of of suicide and of a person who who is suicidal. Yeah. Yeah. I I what are you looking up?
Marc:Oh, I was I was looking at the book, and the book has a different title actually.
Josué:What's the what's the title of book?
Marc:It's it's I mean, it's the same thing. The name has just changed. It's Ove.
Josué:Oh, well, it's a Swedish book.
Marc:Yeah. So that's So I think they just changed the name because Yeah. Don't know. Easier.
Josué:Yeah. Too Swedish Maybe. For American audiences. Yeah. For Western audiences.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. So so closing thoughts on on or actually, before that, do you could you think of we don't have to do that. Just closing thoughts on the Yeah. On the film.
Marc:Think On
Josué:this topic.
Marc:Yeah. I think overall, it is like an it is a like, if you're looking for a movie that, you know, you you can kinda, like, pass all the gags and and all these things. Like, it is it does tell a very heartwarming story. Like, I think the story as it is is rather heartwarming. It's not for everybody, which I get, but I think it it does tell a nice story and it does kind of pull you along through it.
Marc:So ultimately, I think I I enjoyed this movie. And while there are a lot of things that are, you know, very weird or odd or just all around just, like, not the way to go about it, I think that this movie does bring up a lot of things and it does open up a conversation about serious topics. Does it do a good job of being able to portray those things and and highlight the seriousness of those situations? No. But I do think it presents an opportunity to have those types of discussions with other people.
Josué:Yeah. Cool. I I can see why a lot of people would enjoy this movie. But this movie feels very I'm not trying to yuck yums here, it feels like a hallmark movie or a lifetime movie. It does.
Josué:It feels like it has a very low budget in many in many in many ways. And that can just be again, that's just, like, distracting for a movie that that addresses a very or that not addresses, because I don't think it addresses it at all. That includes a very, very serious topic. I And think the movie doesn't take it seriously at all, which is why I think it is worth watching if you want to have a conversation about suicide and grief. I don't recommend it as like I don't know.
Josué:I don't know. I I think if if that's your intention, if that if your intention is to to spark a conversation about suicidality and and dealing with grief and loss, I think it's a worthy piece of media to spark some serious conversation because I cannot think of any movie again, this is just off the top of my head. I I did not I did not research this, but off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single movie that trivializes suicide so much, so many times.
Marc:Yeah. And that's why I said, like, this movie certainly is not for everybody. It does feel very Hallmark y. But I don't know. I I I I guess it's it's one of those bits and pieces where, like, the story itself was heartwarming enough where it kept me along.
Marc:I didn't I didn't find myself getting bored of it. That's only when I actually like, with us talking and and analyzing and processing through it fast. And I'm like, oh, yeah. But here here's all the issues with the movie. Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, in the moment, it was enjoyable. I enjoyed it. Yeah.
Josué:Well, let us know. If if if you watch this movie, let us know what you think. If you've watched it, I'm very curious what other people think about this, people in the community. And, yeah, I'm I I I'd be careful on how I use this one in practice, but but again, I think it's worth exploring. And yeah, let us know in the community spaces, links in the show notes.
Josué:For more geek therapy, visit geektherapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good. We'll be back next week.
Marc:Bye.
Josué:Geek Therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.
