GT Radio - The Geek Therapy Podcast

Josué: 00:12

Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I am joined by Link Keller.

Link: 00:23

Hello.

Josué: 00:24

Lara Taylor.

Lara: 00:25

Hey.

Josué: 00:27

And Marc Cuiriz.

Marc: 00:28

Yo.

Josué: 00:29

Alright.

Josué: 00:29

Right off the bat, a question as old as time. Goku versus Sailor Moon. Who wins?

Marc: 00:40

Goku.

Link: 00:41

Sailor Moon.

Lara: 00:42

Sailor Moon.

Josué: 00:43

I gotta go with Sailor Moon.

Marc: 00:45

You guys, I swear. It's all just because of that power of friendship and belief.

Josué: 00:51

No. No. No. Well well, that's that's what

Link: 00:52

I wanna

Josué: 00:53

get into. I've been I've been watching both. I've been I've been, for the first time, finishing Sailor Moon as a as a story. I never read the manga, but I watched the the old anime. I definitely didn't watch it until the end.

Josué: 01:09

So when Crystal started ten years ago at this point yeah. I think it came out in 2014 or 2013.

Marc: 01:18

Oh, god. I remember when it was announced.

Josué: 01:21

Yeah. And so yeah. Yeah. No. It was 2014.

Josué: 01:23

And so it ended in 2023 is when it they finally finished the story. And it was just released on Netflix in The States, so got the English stuff. So I I I'm finally done with that story. Simultaneously, I've been revisiting Dragon Ball because I was in the mood to play a game, and I think Dragon Ball Z Kakarot was on sale. And I I picked it up, and I played through it.

Josué: 01:52

And it was such a a cool way to play through the entire Dragon Ball z show and parts of Dragon Ball and parts of Super. Like, it it covers a lot, and it doesn't skip anything. It even you can even play through the driver license, the driver's license episode. It they I'm sure they added vehicles to drive just to do that because it's a game where everybody can fly. It's it's pretty great.

Josué: 02:18

So I've been watching both, and there are some a lot of contrast there. And so I'm I'm watching super. I'm watching the Dragon Ball Super and Salem Wound Crystal. And then there's some things that are really glaring to me. And and so I have feelings that I that I that I wanna bring up.

Josué: 02:40

I'm I'm very curious how you guys feel about it. And I'm not sure if I'm actually being objective in terms of my interpretation of either one at this point. So I'm curious what what you guys think. But in in essence, what I want to discuss is the difference in how the characters in Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon basically power up and accomplish solve the problems that they have, accomplish the goals that they have, and where their power comes from, basically. So here's here's my observation.

Josué: 03:22

Right? In Dragon Ball, when there is a new threat, the characters will attempt to fight it. And if they can't defeat it, they will train harder to or train to defeat it. Dragon Ball even has some things where, like, they have these chambers where time passes differently than in the outside world. So sometimes they'll go and they'll train for a year, two years, three years in the span of a couple days just to get strong enough to to defeat a an enemy.

Josué: 04:01

And to me, that that's like, oh, you know, pay or the relatable part of it, the part that you, you know, you might identify with is or if there's a lesson. I don't think it's supposed to be a lesson, but you know what I mean. Right? What they're trying to say is, hey. These characters, if you come across a threat, like, you can work.

Josué: 04:20

There there's there's no such thing as like, anything is possible if you work hard enough, or that you can train enough, like, and and accomplish that goal. Pretty consistent. Anybody anybody see that differently or anybody have any differing? Sounds about right. Okay.

Josué: 04:40

Then in Sailor Moon, whenever there is a threat, the characters will usually attempt to defeat the threat. And if they cannot, they will they will they will not cry, but like, they will get very sad.

Lara: 05:09

And then Pretty sure that Usagi cries a lot.

Josué: 05:14

Okay. Okay. Thank you for confirming. Yeah. Yeah.

Josué: 05:16

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Lara: 05:17

Pretty sure she does.

Josué: 05:19

Like, don't I don't wanna be unfair to the 14 Sailor Guardians by the end of of of Cosmo. They do have different personalities. They're not all the same. But it's like, oh, it didn't work. And then they pray, essentially.

Josué: 05:37

They don't actually pray in the show, but I'm I'm saying they they essentially pray, and then they get blessed.

Lara: 05:42

And prayers kind of prayers. Like, the It's a thoughts.

Josué: 05:46

It's a oh, I want to save my friends. I love them so much. And then some kind of magic is bestowed upon them. They don't travel to find it. It always just comes to them, and they get powered up.

Josué: 06:02

And then they're able to defeat the the enemy and then rinse and repeat. Right? So so there, it's like, oh, we feel defeated. What can we do? We hope for the best.

Josué: 06:15

We we talk about how much we miss our friends, how much we love them, how much we want them to be okay. And then some either someone or something appears to give them the power that they need to accomplish their goal. That's like a general summary. Any any any additional comments to to that? Like, I misrepresenting Sailor Moon?

Lara: 06:45

I think I've seen my girl Ray training sometimes.

Josué: 06:49

So Ray is Mars? Yeah. Mars is the only one who I believe practices

Link: 06:57

Marshal

Josué: 06:58

Kagome cosplay.

Link: 07:02

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Josué: 07:03

Right?

Lara: 07:04

She well, she's she's like a priestess. Mhmm. Yeah.

Josué: 07:08

Yeah. Yeah. But I think she has like a bow and arrow that she practices with. She never uses it in

Lara: 07:14

This is why I love eating Yasha.

Link: 07:16

Yeah. I think she's

Josué: 07:19

practicing all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Josué: 07:24

So, again, I I appreciate I think I think so that's my generalization on on the I don't know what to call it. Like, the power system. It's not a magic system. Right? But you you know what I mean.

Josué: 07:36

Right? Like, this is how power works in these two shows. I think it's also worth noting that one is a shonen, right, which in Japanese means content created for, like, young men, young boys. And Sailor Moon is a shoujo, right, which is content made for young women or girls. And so, again, I mean, the creators, there's different shounen and different shoujo that don't have that don't necessarily have the same tropes.

Josué: 08:09

But it was it was very glaring to me that the most popular shonen and the most popular shoujo are, like, have that stark difference. So before I ask any other questions, any other comments on that or anything else that like is worth mentioning about differences between the two? Also, Seven Moon is very gay in the best way possible. Yeah. I wanted to send I wanted to appreciate that.

Josué: 08:48

In the in in Cosmo, there are these characters who, when they transform, they tap dance. And it is it is just it is I I really enjoy Sailor Moon. Like, I I've always liked that as a kid. It's like there's there's a different kind of visual spectacle, but it's still, like it's crazy. And and, yeah, I think I think Southern Moon would be Coco.

Lara: 09:14

I got up every morning to record Sailor Moon before school, and I still have the tapes with all the original sailor moon. And I have a v VHS in a box somewhere, like VHS player.

Marc: 09:27

That's on gold

Josué: 09:27

right there. Wow.

Lara: 09:29

And it's got all the, like, sailor moon says and all the, like, all the different, like, messages, the PSAs for for kids. But I after school, my friend who lived on the East Coast would he would record Dragon Ball z, and then I would get home and I we we'd call on the phone and sync up and watch it together.

Link: 09:56

Aw.

Lara: 09:58

But Sailor Moon is definitely my fave.

Josué: 10:02

It's so interesting you do that because the only show that I remember that was like, oh, it's like five or 6AM in the morning when I'm getting ready for school, like super, super early, was Sailor Moon. But then, yeah, I would come home from school and then watch DBZ in the in the afternoons. That's so weird. I don't I don't remember watching Sailor Moon when the sun was out, like like, without like, being awake. Mhmm.

Josué: 10:25

Right?

Lara: 10:26

Yeah. And so

Link: 10:27

all my watch it when the moon's out.

Lara: 10:30

All my reference of this

Josué: 10:31

on the twenty eighth.

Lara: 10:32

Is, like, from that because I started watching you wanted to do this episode. I started watching a little bit of Crystal, and I've only watched, like, three episodes. And I'm like, I don't know how I feel about this.

Josué: 10:43

I really don't know style.

Lara: 10:45

Because the animation style. And I'm so used to watching. I mean, I have the movies on tape in Japanese, but I'm so used to dubbed that I'm like, her name is not Usagi. It's Serena. Like, I don't yeah.

Josué: 11:06

I get it.

Link: 11:07

I don't have a ton of familiarity with either properties. I've seen a handful of episodes of both. But it is my understanding that like Sailor Moon is a big ensemble cast. Sailor Moon is the main character, but she's got all of her sailor friends. Goku is usually only has like

Josué: 11:49

this queen from really far back has a daughter that's about to get killed, but she sends her to get, like, reincarnated in the future. So Usagi is actually Serena. Usagi is, like, a reincarnated version of this old princess who's going to grow up to be the next queen of this, like, super futuristic crystal kingdom from, like, two a thousand years into the future. And then her daughter comes into the past and it's like, it's very sci fi. Like, it's got a fantasy, but it's super sci fi.

Lara: 12:20

Boyfriend also gets sent to the yeah. Mhmm.

Josué: 12:24

Oh, he's like, I'm I'm I'm since you're watching Crystal now, I won't say much, but, like, he's got yeah. Yeah. It's like the king. I love all that stuff. I love the reincarnation piece.

Josué: 12:32

I love the sci fi. I love the time travel. It's awesome. But then they do this thing where where the the she's Sailor Moon, like the guardian of Earth, but then there's all the inner planets, which are like the five main and then and then they go into the outer planets all the way out to Pluto.

Lara: 12:51

Which is where we really get the gay. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. The god Unless you're watching the old American version.

Lara: 12:57

But

Josué: 12:57

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then it goes beyond that. Right?

Josué: 13:01

And then it it goes it goes into, like, asteroids that are revolving around it. Like, it's it's a whole thing. And then so, yes, it's very sci fi. So but those are the characters. Like, they keep extending the solar system out.

Josué: 13:16

And and so there is a a cast of characters that continues to grow. And then she has like, Usagi has a mom and all that. So there is a full there is a lot of family and friendship and and love in that sense. They're all they're all friends. In I mean, I'm not even gonna get into some of the stuff, like, age stuff or any of that stuff.

Josué: 13:41

I I don't think that's really relevant. But then in Dragon Ball z, when the show starts, it's just this little boy who's, like, living alone in the jungle. And slowly but surely, he's he's collecting friends along the way. So in in Dragon Ball Super, there's the first character that he ever meets in the show, she is having a birthday party on a cruise ship, and she invites basically the supporting cast of the show and the other main characters. There's about 30 of them that are like that you know by name and have, like, forty years of history.

Josué: 14:12

So there's a huge cast as well, and and his family is extended. And they have had things where it's like they're sharing like, they are supporting Goku by giving them their strength and power and so but they do have a a very large

Lara: 14:29

And

Josué: 14:30

cast as

Lara: 14:30

well. He collects friends from the rogues gallery too.

Josué: 14:33

He's definitely yeah. He's he's one of those. He's like

Marc: 14:37

there's a whole monologue and speech towards the end of super that, like, Krillin and master Roshi, like, they're explaining how he's like, yeah. A lot of us, we started off as, like, adversaries or enemies. Like, they wanted to kill him. Like, they they wanted to just demolish him. And yet here they are now backing him up because that's just the kind of person that he is.

Marc: 15:00

And so, like, that's where that that history of, like, there's this huge supporting cast that, like, yeah, sure, Goku is is, like, the protagonist, but, you know, he he still has his whole peanut gallery that's that's all there with him, and they're always gonna be there side by side. So I think in in this case, like, Dragon Ball and and Sailor Moon are kinda the same.

Josué: 15:22

Yeah. And and and Goku doesn't even he's not even the one who always saves the day, which I think is something pretty cool that is that is transpired throughout the show too. So even though, like, he is the main character, the world around him is like there's a lot of effective people around who can who can function. Anyway. Yeah, sorry.

Josué: 15:44

Ten minutes to answer that that question. You were saying like,

Link: 15:48

I just sort of my my understanding is sort of like a smaller, smaller group focused for Goku and larger group focused for Sailor Moon. But it sounds like it does both for both shows.

Marc: 16:02

So Yeah. Yeah. Like, they do definitely break off in, like, their smaller groups in, you know, throughout this throughout the series. Like, it's not everybody all the time in in Dragon Ball z just like it's not everybody all the time in Sailor Moon. But

Josué: 16:19

I do like the generational, by the way. Like like, you saw them as kids, then you see them get married, and they have kids. And their kids are growing up, and they have kids. So, like, Goku's a grandfather, you know, by by the beginning of super. That's pretty cool.

Josué: 16:35

Yeah. So so that's an so those two elements are are similar, I think. And I think the way that they help each other as family and friends is different too, in that sense.

Link: 16:48

Alright. So on that.

Josué: 16:50

So so in Sailor Moon, they will cry, be very sad, but, like, really, like, be so sad about the what's happening to their friends or missing their friends and wanting to be together again and wanting to be able to to save them. It's again, it's like prayer where in in Dragon Ball, it's it's more practical in a sense. It's like, oh, you need to go, like, give this person this thing to heal them. Go and get it. You need I'm gonna train with you.

Josué: 17:28

I'm gonna show you how to do this. Like, everybody has There's teachers. Goku goes through multiple teachers throughout the show. And so and then they become part of that supporting cast. And so there's there's that kind of there's mentors and and so it's different.

Josué: 17:45

It's not I think that that piece of training and and working to get stronger is evident in terms of the family as well.

Marc: 17:56

I think the closest thing that might come to that in Dragon Ball Z where it's like, kind of like the the thoughts and prayers is the spirit bomb where they're Yeah. That's what was saying before. Yeah. But, like, that's even then, that's more of practical sense because they're like, no. Here, let me actually physically lend you my energy to that It's opt in.

Marc: 18:14

Defeat. Yeah. It's not like a necessarily like, oh, here, we're just gonna pray, and you're just gonna immediately power up. It's like, no. No.

Marc: 18:21

No. Like, you we're we're giving you this to use it as a weapon. Like, we become part of the weapon.

Josué: 18:27

And one person is protecting you while you're while while you're gathering people's energy. Like, yeah. It's it's a team effort.

Marc: 18:32

Yeah. So it yeah. It's it's not like a yeah. We're just gonna like, all of a sudden, everything's gonna be better because honestly, the spirit bomb, it's it's it's not like a a one shot type of thing. Like, I don't think it it's I think it's only worked once, quite honestly.

Marc: 18:51

I I think it's I think it's track record is pretty low.

Josué: 18:53

It's it's hard to pull off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unlike the starlight honeymoon therapy kiss, that shit don't miss.

Josué: 19:01

That one is okay. So my question, when is the Dragon Ball version of self improvement and goal achievement and progress helpful. Right? Like or inspiring. Right?

Josué: 19:30

That type of story. It doesn't have to be specifically, you know, Dragon Ball, but that kind of that kind of thing. Do you guys have any examples of of a time when a story like that has been helpful and or has there been a version when or a time when it hasn't been helpful? It's something you aspire to. Thoughts on this.

Marc: 19:56

I would say, like, there there are probably multiple times in, like, growing up, like, just being in school and especially someone like myself who I always consider myself more of, an outsider, more of, like, an outcast, just kinda keeping to myself type of person. With the friends that I would have that were, like, a lot of times really, like, you know, they were doing sports. They were athletes, family that were athletes. And I always kinda strived to try to, like, maintain like, get to that level of physique because that's just something that I just wanted for myself. And there were a lot of times when I I was really tough on myself because I wasn't getting to a level that I wanted to be at.

Marc: 20:35

But in my head, it's like, you know, you have, like, those things at the gym. Like, they have those shirts where it's, like, training, like, Goku or, you know, whatever. But in my head, like, having, like, a goal that I I had set in my mind of, like, this is what I want to set out to achieve. And I have someone here to support me and help me get through that. Like, then it's like thinking like, okay, well, I am kind of training like him because I have someone here that's going to push me.

Marc: 21:00

I have someone here that I consider to be a rival. So I want to work to surpass that. I want to try and surpass my own limits and push through them and and grow stronger as a person. And that that's just like thinking about, you know, being in, middle school and high school and doing, like, the physical strength training. But then I also think of it as even pushing myself out of my own comfort zone.

Marc: 21:24

Like, when it came to, like, social interactions, like being a very awkward and shy person and then having to, like, go out and and talk to people and then try to make friends and be social. Like, that was something that was very hard at times. But I kinda had that mentality of, like, I can better myself. I can push myself. And the more that I do this, the easier it'll become and the more skilled I will get in in doing those things.

Marc: 21:52

So for me, like, that's in those instances, that's where it's like it's worked out for me. I can't really think of a time where it didn't necessarily work out. That's just all I had to think about that a little bit more.

Josué: 22:06

Yeah. Yeah. I'm I I I can add that one. Like, there's a version of that question that I can ask better later. So what what about what about also, I mean, I think, like, lots of video games, that's kind of the way it's set up.

Josué: 22:18

Right? Like, if you wanna progress, you know you have to get stronger. You have to grind. And it's very much that same type of of idea.

Lara: 22:28

You know, you bring that up and then I'm like, how many times does watching Dragon Ball feel like a grind to me where a conversation or a battle takes like 20 episodes? But I mean

Josué: 22:42

That's that's an exaggeration. Yeah.

Lara: 22:44

It is not. It is not. Anyway, anyway, I think a lot of times that this kind of thing would help me in a situation where I'm trying to do something very specific. Like, I don't know, when I was studying for the licensing exam, right? Like, I gotta train, I gotta get better, I gotta sit and do my questions so I can practice for the test, do the practice test so I can do the real test and pass that.

Lara: 23:18

Having a very specific kind of goal. And things that are more like video game skill based kind of things, that this kind of thinking would be helpful. Like, gotta train, gotta do the thing. Yeah.

Marc: 23:36

Yeah. Side note, Lara is only right in one instance, and that the Goku and Frieza fight lasted around 30 episodes. But it's

Lara: 23:47

That's the one I remember.

Marc: 23:49

But it's also considered to be the longest fight in anime history because it spans about four hours. So, like, that's a that's a one off.

Link: 23:58

We love our We love checkers here. Really, that would

Lara: 24:01

be like a whole episode, and it's just cutting to Goku and Frieza back and forth, back and forth, and they didn't move. And then the next episode, they didn't move. Like

Marc: 24:13

That that's a bit of an exercise.

Link: 24:15

Doing a lot of internal really.

Josué: 24:19

To be fair, a lot happens in that fight.

Marc: 24:21

Yeah. It's not like There there's a lot of internal conflict Like and

Lara: 24:26

But 30 episodes for one fight. That is thirty weeks. Well, no. No, no, no. It was we watched five episodes a day.

Lara: 24:35

That's what? Six weeks. Six weeks. Five episodes a But

Marc: 24:41

that's six weeks of good quality content.

Link: 24:44

That's six I weeks of do I do think having stories about persistence and perseverance are really important. I do I do think that the the context in which that specific persistence and perseverance in physical training to beat up bad guys is not as applicable to my own life. But neither is like space princesses. So it may just be I'm because I didn't watch these as a child. Hasn't really these versions of that story have not connected with me in that way.

Link: 25:30

I am as we are talking about both of these shows, thinking a lot about Gurren log in. Because that was one of the early anime that I watched in its entirety when it first got released in America with my friends and the believe in the me that believes in you. My friends and I would yell that at each other all the time. So definitely like that. That sort of persistence and perseverance story that is within Gurren Lagann of not giving up and depending on your friends and leaning on each other when you don't when you don't have gas in your tank to believe in yourself is to believe in the people who do believe in you.

Link: 26:12

That has definitely stuck with me for a long time.

Josué: 26:18

Okay, so so so you're going so this is this is more of the Sailor Moon side of

Link: 26:23

it? Yes. Yes. It is it is more about that putting the the training time into building relationships with other people is what will lead to the payout of succeeding against your conflicts versus internal self work, doing your own physical personal training. But as we've been talking about, Goku does do you know, he spends time and energy building relationships as well.

Link: 26:55

So it's not it's not one or the other. So so Gurren Lagann leans a little bit more Sailor Moon.

Lara: 27:01

Leans being given two options that go in two different directions decides to go straight down the middle to to a different path.

Link: 27:08

I can't help it. I am nonbinary. I

Josué: 27:14

think Gurren Gurren Lagann does the same thing at Sailor Moon. I haven't finished watching the show, but I remember, like, oh, this mech. And then suddenly, it does something we didn't know it could do before, you know? And it's like, oh, we we powered up not because we we trained or practiced, but because it has secrets that we are yet to to unlock. But if we push forward, we will

Link: 27:37

parts find where they do like training with like how to use the robot, but also like one of the plot points is that they find other people who can help them like work on and build and improve the robot. So it is sort of that thing where it's like, it's it's always sort of cycling back to people are where the power is.

Josué: 27:57

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, right, the the the Dragon Ball Z piece of it, the Dragon Ball version of sure. You gotta study.

Josué: 28:05

You gotta practice. In in Marc's your case, obvious. Right? Like, if you wanna be an athlete, you you gotta practice. If you want to get jacked.

Josué: 28:16

You've gotta you've gotta you've gotta lift weights. You wanna go faster. You gotta run, etcetera. There's there's no prayer that will that will make that happen. To to to Link's point, that can help.

Josué: 28:33

Right? So I think so I think that goes into the that second question. Right? So then when is the Sailor Moon version of of improvement? When has that been helpful for you?

Josué: 28:47

Or what does it bring to mind?

Lara: 28:51

It's interesting. It brings to mind me this idea. Sometimes clients will say they don't believe in themselves, and so we talk about who does believe in you, right? That thing, the thing that Link was saying, but I think that's also a theme in Sailor Moon, is that your friendships and your friends are what hold you up and give you the power to be able to do the things. Even though sometimes all of a sudden we just believe and then Sailor Moon's got a new ability, whatever the one you were talking about earlier with the therapy kiss, whatever.

Josué: 29:30

Starlight honeymoon therapy kiss.

Lara: 29:32

Therapy kiss. Okay. Because right now, I'm just on, like, moon tiara magic. Right? Yeah.

Josué: 29:40

No. You're you're always away. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry for this.

Lara: 29:44

Yeah. It's okay. It's okay. But I think it is important to be able to also this idea of manifesting things and like believing in yourself so that you can go and do the thing. Because you can train and train and train and still have that impostor syndrome that says you can't do something.

Lara: 30:05

And it's people believing in you or you believing in yourself that allows you to do the thing sometimes.

Josué: 30:14

Yeah.

Marc: 30:15

Alright. Kinda going off of that, Lara, like, the first thing that kinda was popping to my head or what was coming up for me was Yu Oh. Like, the the first Believe

Josué: 30:26

in the cards.

Marc: 30:27

Yeah. The first couple of seasons of Yu Gi Oh! Where it it is all about, you know, trusting in the heart of the cards or, like, even in, like, the very first episode, they're like they're like, oh, yeah. Believe in your friends. Like, they've they've got your back.

Marc: 30:39

And as long as you have your friends and and you trust in your deck, like, you're gonna pull the right card. And and now you got all five pieces of Exodia, boom, instant win. But I remember there's a there are a few episodes where, like, you know, Yugi's trying to draw a card and then, like, it cuts to, like, this inner thing. It's like, ah, the deck, it senses my doubt because I'm I'm doubting myself and I'm doubting my ability to play the game because, like, you know, you could be a master strategist. But if if your your head isn't in it or if you don't have that drive and that belief in yourself to put push through and and carry yourself through it, then you can have all the skill, but that's not gonna do anything if you don't have that mindset too of it.

Marc: 31:28

In which case, like, you know, with Yugi, like, they have that instance where they doubt themselves and it's like, oh, no. I I gotta, like, I gotta lock in. I gotta refocus myself. And then, you know, they look to their friends and they're like, they're here. They're cheering me on.

Marc: 31:43

And then in an instance where Yugi doesn't do that and it's, like, kinda later on, he ends up losing. And then that's when, like, the whole Silo Ori Kalkos stuff happens, and then Yuki and Yuki get separated. And it's a whole weird thing that they're trying to get him back, the soul back and everything. But, like, that's an instance where it's like, no. I'm giving into this darker piece of, like, I'm I'm filling my head with all this negative stuff rather than kind of believing and trusting in my own cards and and in my own mindset and and believing in what my friends trust in me.

Marc: 32:18

So, like, that's kinda where I was going, and that's kinda building off of Lara, like, you know, like, with clients who state, like, they don't believe in themselves or they don't feel like they can do it. And then you kinda take that second, like, okay. Well, you don't think that, but who does in your life?

Lara: 32:31

Like,

Marc: 32:32

who in your life does think that? Who has told you that? And then exploring that further.

Lara: 32:38

And then I also think about I brought up my licensing exam for the other example, but with this, being an outpatient therapist in a clinic the first time, on my own with a license, I had all the training and all the expertise and schooling and all of that, and I still felt like I had no idea what the hell I was doing the first week. I was winging it, and I was like, do I still wanna do this? Am I helping people? I don't know. And I had a wife, Nina, who tells me, you know, you know what you're doing.

Lara: 33:12

You can do this. And I called my supervisor from my last job, and I'm like, I really don't think I know what I'm doing. And he's like, you know what you're doing. Just get back to the basics of how you start building connections with people. And I'm still doing it, like, five years later.

Lara: 33:33

So I guess maybe that worked.

Josué: 33:38

A version of that, I tell people, depending on what it is, but I'll be like, it's not up to you in the sense of like, oh, I'll be able to do the job. Well, like, I don't know. I'm like, yeah. And like, if they hire you, if they offer you the job, it's because they believe that you can.

Lara: 33:56

I tell people that.

Josué: 33:57

Whether you can or you can't. It's not it's not your decision. Right? So so that makes me think of the I mean, in in Sailor Moon in particular, like, she's a reincarnation of a princess. Right?

Josué: 34:10

Like, she may not feel like she's super powerful or like I mean, also, she she also has the evidence, like, that she will be successful, and she still questions it. Like, she has Mhmm. Like, in in RBT, right, like, I would always

Lara: 34:22

Visions of the future. Like, literal visions that she can do this stuff. And yeah.

Josué: 34:26

Yeah. Her daughter comes and tells her like, yeah, you're my mom a thousand years from now. And like, you're super powerful.

Link: 34:33

Mhmm.

Josué: 34:34

You're gonna live till then. Yeah, I would always ask clients for evidence, right? They're like, oh, I can't like, show me the evidence. What what what is it? What

Lara: 34:45

it be great if our kids could come back a thousand years and tell us we're gonna live that long? Link is saying no, thank you.

Josué: 34:58

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Link, does this bring up anything? Like specific?

Link: 35:07

No, not. Not specifically. I did earlier in the conversation remember the, the tuxedo mask meme of my job here is done, but you didn't do anything. And that that piece has stuck with me in that sometimes the heroic action you do is just showing up for somebody. You don't you just have to be there.

Link: 35:33

You don't have to do anything. Just be there and then they can succeed in their great quest.

Josué: 35:41

I'll I'll jump on that because in the show because in the in the show, I think that is a big a big part of it. Right? It's like, they don't there's no explain I mean, yes, they're all reincarnated, so they they innately have these powers. But like but they do show up. They always show up.

Josué: 36:01

Like, they're always there. And and in that sense, like, they have this power. They don't have to use it, but they choose to to to use it. And, they they have to show up. And there's definitely something there.

Josué: 36:22

Someone wants to stay in bed, but she still goes to school.

Link: 36:26

Or

Lara: 36:30

you're in a play or doing a performance or a recital or something, and no one shows up. You feel kinda crappy, and maybe you don't do so well. But your friend shows up, you can see them in the audience, and it's like, oh, okay, somebody's here for me. Like, they believe I can do it. All you gotta do is buy the ticket and show up.

Link: 36:53

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and flap your cape around when

Lara: 36:58

you leave. Yeah.

Link: 37:00

That's very important to the whole thing.

Josué: 37:05

Alright, so help me help me process this. Because, again, I've been watching Sailor Moon since since I was Lara's the same age as Lara watching it on our way to school. Right? Like, how young were we? We were very young.

Josué: 37:21

That

Lara: 37:23

was like, I didn't I didn't start watching till I was 13 or 14 because I was very against I was the person who said I was not a nerd. And I told my friend, no anime could be watched in my house.

Link: 37:36

And they're like,

Lara: 37:38

Sailor Moon. And then we watched Sailor Moon.

Link: 37:41

And then you got you got infected with that nerd disease. Now you're

Lara: 37:46

a big old nerd. Did I also said no RPGs in my house? My Then I'm wearing

Marc: 37:51

a D and D right now. Fallen.

Link: 37:54

Yeah. Mhmm. You can't escape your fates. You're gonna be the princess of the moon.

Josué: 38:00

I was younger. So definitely, like, thirty years worth of watching Sailor Moon. And it wasn't until this time now that I watched it, that it actually bothered me that it seemed everything seemed so easy to them for them. Everything was given to them. And as long as they believed something would happen where they would get more and they would get what they want.

Josué: 38:30

I wanna spoil the end of the show, but I I I Lara, I won't do it if you if you're

Lara: 38:37

I mean, don't I don't know. I don't know

Josué: 38:39

if it's different. I don't doubt it's different than the original show. I

Lara: 38:42

don't in the original show

Josué: 38:45

They may have changed it because

Lara: 38:46

of only goes as far as Sailor Pluto.

Josué: 38:49

Oh, right. Right. It doesn't go beyond that.

Lara: 38:51

Yeah. It doesn't go beyond that. But, I mean, come on, Josue. In an episode I just watched, Usagi goes to a to a jewelry store and can't afford it. And she can't get the that piece of jewelry.

Lara: 39:07

Also, she can't get good grades no matter what

Josué: 39:10

she does. Yeah. Can't believe yourself into that one. Yeah. Yeah.

Josué: 39:15

No.

Lara: 39:15

She can't. She really can't. Yeah.

Josué: 39:20

Link, you like something that I said, please.

Link: 39:23

I think I think what you brought up about like, there being an aspect of like, it's too easy for them is that is the the distinction between the shonen and the shojo in that for young girls that is the the power fantasy wish fulfillment is that you want something to happen and it happens.

Lara: 39:45

Because that's not how

Marc: 39:46

it works.

Link: 39:47

And then for young boys is the power fantasy of like, I'm gonna punch a rock 100 times, and then I'll be able to defeat my father or whatever. That's how most shonen works. Right?

Marc: 39:59

Fighting fathers. There's always a rock.

Link: 40:01

It's it's always metaphorically your father. Right? Yeah. The doubts are always dead. You got you're, like, psychically

Lara: 40:08

There's always an Oedipal.

Link: 40:10

But the anyways, the the idea of, like, doing the physical action is the the power fantasy fulfillment is being able to punch a dude so hard that he's like, actually, I do wanna be your best friend. Like, is a power fantasy for your boys versus for the the young girls of the other side. Right? That's so funny. They're overlapping a lot.

Link: 40:30

But, like, I think that is a distinction in what the the Shojo and Shonen power fantasy is trying to fulfill.

Josué: 40:43

Are you saying they're both wish fulfillment?

Lara: 40:45

They are. They're just It's just different wishes.

Josué: 40:48

Different wishes.

Link: 40:48

They are they are power fantasies, but what what the power is and how it is achieved or fulfilled is different. Why?

Josué: 41:00

What do you think?

Lara: 41:01

I mean,

Link: 41:01

I I personally do not have the frame of reference to explain gender dynamics in Japanese media. But I think that's a big part of it is that there there are just gendered elements in what people who sell things think that boys and girls want. And then how recursively that affects our cultures in, in what kids actually do want to see in their media. But yeah, I don't I don't, I don't have a good enough frame of reference to you to delve very deep because I don't know enough Japanese or Japanese history, or Japanese sociology.

Josué: 41:50

Yeah. Southern One does have a female creator.

Link: 41:54

Yes.

Josué: 41:55

So I have been I have been thinking

Link: 41:57

I think that that

Josué: 41:58

aspect too. Through Crystal, there are many aspects where it it feels very much like a like, if you're looking at the world through Usagi's eyes, I see what her fantasy is. Right? Like and and I see why why she wants certain things. But something about it, I don't know, that bothers me.

Josué: 42:19

Again, this time I'm watching, I'm like, there's just it's just so easy. I guess, I mean, this is a question I was gonna use for for a wrap up, but I'm I'm wondering when either of them like, we we talked about the positives somewhat, but when can they be detrimental? Like, when are they not good examples to follow possibly? If that if if you think of that, like, I've been thinking about that.

Link: 42:54

I think the the persistence and perseverance of Goku can can be detrimental when you're looking at like systemic issues, because that puts the onus more individualized rather than needing systemic large groups of people to to change systems. On the other side of that for Sailor Moon is is you know, the idea of you know, beseeching to a higher power or to the power of your social group. You could have bad actors in your social group that could that could be detrimental if you are trying to rely on people who don't have your best interests at heart.

Josué: 43:40

Who are like egging you on to do something? That is either gonna hurt you or they could be lying. You're just just setting you up for failure. Yeah. Yeah.

Lara: 43:51

I could also see with with Dragon Ball, at some point, persistence and perseverance and resilience is good until a point. There might be you're punching that rock and it's just not going to break and you're going to break your hand trying to break the rock. Right? And that can be true in relationships. We have to realize when is it good for us to work on a relationship and when is it time to cut that relationship.

Lara: 44:22

And then on the Sailor Moon side, I can also see, like, sometimes you have to do something to get a result. Like, I just had a conversation with somebody this week about therapy, and like, you have to do the work. You can't just show up and do nothing. Like, you have to put something into it.

Josué: 44:45

Just fix them, Lara. Why why don't you just fix them?

Lara: 44:48

You wish I

Link: 44:49

could you can't tuxedo mask your way through therapy.

Lara: 44:52

I'm not even gonna try the honey whatever. Yeah.

Marc: 44:58

The therapy smooch.

Lara: 44:59

Therapy smooch. Why would they put those two words together?

Josué: 45:03

Starlight honeymoon therapy kiss. What's so difficult about this?

Lara: 45:07

Why would they put therapy and kiss together, but that's not gonna save you in this world?

Josué: 45:15

No. To your point on the rock. Right? Like, like, the rock could be like Ling said, that could be the system that you that you're Mhmm. Like, you literally can't do anything about it.

Josué: 45:27

That rock is unbreakable. But also, you might break your hand. Like, it can lead like, you can burn yourself out by by going too hard. That is something that in Dragon Ball, I think does cover well. Right?

Josué: 45:46

Like, people die. They are hurt badly. Right? Like, there are consequences to their training, to their fighting, to their choosing to engage. There are magical elements, like, can cure pretty quickly.

Josué: 45:58

And if you die, you couldn't be brought back. But still, it's like, there is and there are characters that have accepted that they they cannot they're like, you, Goku, have, like and they've explained it a way of, like, how he can keep getting stronger and stronger, but most people, like, they're done. They're tired. They don't wanna go any further. It's too much work, and they've kinda taken a backseat.

Marc: 46:26

Well yeah. And they even kinda go off of that. Like, I know, like, in, like, the later chapters of, like, the manga, like, Vegeta even points that out. He's like, we've trained our bodies to their absolute limits. Like, there there is no going further beyond that.

Marc: 46:41

Like, the next step is, like, more of mental training and and more of, like, control over their own power. But, like, like, Lara and and Link, like, you guys are all saying it pretty pretty nicely in a way, like, I don't feel like I can actually build off of that. But to kinda reiterate, like, yeah. Like, you can you can do this and you can, you know, build this resilience and you can and work on this idea of self improvement and training, but only up to a certain point. Like, you can reach a point where, like, no amount of work that you're putting in or no amount of extra stuff that you were trying to put in as in an attempt to better yourself.

Marc: 47:24

Like, it might not end up actually pushing you forward. Like, you might eventually hit that plateau or you hit your limit. And there there there is no more further improvement. Like, you've done everything that you can do, and that's it. Like, thinking of, like, you know, being as a as a person of color and and, like, trying to, like, build yourself up or you're trying to, you know, rise through societal, you know, the societal class system, all that other fun stuff.

Marc: 47:53

Like, you can do all the things right. And you could train and hone yourself in in a sense to to give yourself all the things that, someone who is white and it still might not be enough. That that speaks to the

Link: 48:11

systemic good point, Marc, is is like you can you can experience, you know, do the persistence and and the resilience and everything, but you can't practice your way into being perceived white.

Marc: 48:23

Yeah. And and that's simply just seeking it from this, like, somewhat systemic system that, like of, like, punching the rock, but like it's never gonna break like because there are some barriers that you just you can't break not on your own. Like that's when you need the power behind like a support system or, you know, a collective to finally give you that power to break through it. But on the other hand, like with Sailor Moon, having that idea of putting that in a belief or just trying to take a more passive role, then you run the risk of becoming complicit in all of these things. With the idea of like, oh, but it will get better.

Marc: 49:10

I'm not going to do anything about it, but it'll get better. I believe it'll get better and hoping that those things are going to change. Well, also then like for some people that then it's escaping that blame. It's escaping that idea of like, oh, I'm not gonna do anything about it. But I have hopes and I have a dream and I have a belief that all this is gonna work out in the end.

Marc: 49:29

And you just gotta keep believing. You just gotta keep pushing. You just gotta keep having that and it'll all work out. And if it doesn't, well, then it's not done yet. You gotta keep moving.

Marc: 49:37

Like, that's all fine and that that for some people can be motivating. But like for people that are constantly experiencing hardship or constantly running into barriers and they're constantly being put down, like having that type of hope, with a good support system. Sometimes that's just not enough. Like, that's when it be like Lara was saying, you have to then take the active role and you have to start doing something about it. Otherwise, that in and of itself can just lead to a burnout because it's like, well, I've done all the believing I've tried relying on people and I get shot down every single time or it's just not working out the way I was hoping it would.

Marc: 50:16

So like, what's the point? And then now you don't have that belief and that motivation to push you to take the active role to potentially make that difference.

Josué: 50:28

I worked at a school once where they had different initiatives and programs, and it was like built into their curriculum and their mission that they wanted to instill hope in these kids. And I was like, I raised my hand, and I was like, hope is, like, a dangerous thing. Like, I don't I don't think you're being honest with these kids. It's like, you can be president someday. It's like, well, let's look at the statistical odds.

Josué: 51:06

Not to discourage someone from from from an aspiration, but everything that you said, Marc, is is definitely true. And that's that's you you've all covered a lot of what I what I thought. I think of, like, being delusional or being,

Link: 51:32

like

Josué: 51:33

I mean, you can push yourself to the point of death, right, if you're talking about something physical or try something to the point where you run out of money and you can like, you can exhaust resources and come up to a wall like that. I feel like there's no wall for belief. Like, could keep I I heard a term over the weekend, and it was, like, fractal lying, like fractal mis dis misinformation. Right? Was like, it's a it's a loop that feeds into itself of, like, you have this one, you know, belief, but then the thing that is supposed to inform that belief is also not true.

Josué: 52:19

And then thing that informs that belief is also not true. And then you end up in this looper, like, there's only misinformation feeding misinformation. And that's that then informs your your perspective. And it's I find it so dangerous. And and, like, Link, you mentioned that you can weaponize that stuff, but also just a person being in a situation like that where they just believe whether it's that they think that they're entitled to something or or just the things, you know, a lot of it is entitlement.

Josué: 52:54

I've met a lot of people where I'm like, oh, I get your worldview. That is not I think that's the way the world works. But going back to your point again, Marc, if the person I'm talking to is a white guy, he has I can't dissuade him from from believing that he's not Mhmm. Has not been given what he is owed. Yeah.

Josué: 53:21

Yeah. Good points, all of you. That that's kind of where where, like, my mind was just racing, thinking about the the differences between the two. And, my my bias has been watching the shows where I'm like, you know, like, I understand that, you know, it it takes a little effort, but Salem would just seem like religion to me. And I'm so anti that just it'll work out.

Josué: 53:50

I'm just gonna pray for it and things will happen. And it it it sucks because I get ruined by enjoyment of the of the show. No. Towards the end because it kept it kept I kept thinking of that. But you've all established that there are there's a non binary way to go through it.

Josué: 54:16

Are two extremes, but I think right, they can complement each other in in the right way.

Link: 54:21

I mean, I think my takeaway here is that it would suck to only have access to one of these shows that that they work well together as a way to understand these kinds of stories shown in a shojo stories. And those underlying belief systems that they're built off of. I think it would be a real bummer if you only got to see one.

Lara: 54:50

Yeah. Also, why do we gotta pit them against each other all the time even though Sailor Moon would win?

Link: 54:55

And now we've got the therapy kiss.

Lara: 54:58

When I when I when I was a kid, it was like, everybody was like, you can only like one. You can only like Goku or Serena. You can't have Sailor Moon. And I had Sailor Moon posters on my walls and a few Dragon Ball Z stickers, but, like, it was a whole thing. You could only like one.

Josué: 55:17

I I once had an argument with a preacher about homosexuality. Tried to have an argument, and it was an impossible it was impossible because and that's why Sailor Moon would win.

Marc: 55:32

Okay. Sailor Moon. You. I don't

Josué: 55:34

Sailor Moon is is yeah. She if she can believe as long as she believes, she can be Goku, she will.

Link: 55:47

And there is an interesting wrinkle in that she has this like physical proof of like, everything will work out for you because you do proven live to be 1,000 years old you have a child. I mean, I I wouldn't trust somebody showing up and being like, I'm your child from the future. Everything's gonna be great. I'd be like, that sounds like bullshit. I don't believe you.

Lara: 56:12

But But also, you don't live in a world where you turn into a magical girl.

Link: 56:16

And then Sailor Moon, the things that she experienced leading up to that stuff, those revelations, I guess was like, yeah, it all makes sense now. But it does sort of add like, is very much like belief and it is this sort of religious belief in some sort of higher power outside of yourself. But there is that wrinkle to it where it's like, well, it's not really belief because she has evidence. It's proven.

Josué: 56:41

It is there is a a paradox

Link: 56:45

there. Just a little bit.

Lara: 56:46

Just a little bit.

Josué: 56:47

Which I've thought about a lot because I'm like, how did how did this all get started? Because you can accept the fact that now she has all of this. Right? Which could be I don't know. We could compare it to, like, a family who's rich.

Josué: 57:00

Right? It's like, I don't know. You have a trust fund. You're building it. You don't really have to worry about anything.

Josué: 57:04

You know, you were born into it. That's where she's at. But I'm always wondering, like, how did your parents make that money? What happened? And they never touched that.

Josué: 57:12

There's never anything about, you know, queen serenity and how she how she became so powerful. There's there's nothing because it doesn't matter, I guess.

Lara: 57:24

And even before even before her daughter shows up and is like, you're going to live forever or whatever. Like, Luna is there to tell her, like, and kind of guide the way. Like, these are the powers you have and, like, is planting the seed. Like, I'm just at the beginning of this show. Yeah.

Lara: 57:43

Yeah. This time around. But she's the one like, hey, this is the other say, I'm going to call them Sailor Scouts. This is the other Sailor Scout. This is the other.

Lara: 57:52

This one is here's your friends. Like, she's guiding and putting the pieces around for her to figure it out.

Marc: 58:02

So Yeah. Well, with those grades, Shane figuring it out.

Link: 58:05

Yeah. This is also ultimately, it's like to the belief system, who cares? Am I gonna be able to pass my math class? No.

Lara: 58:14

She never will. Sorry. Her mom walks her out of the house because she got a 30% on a test.

Josué: 58:22

She does do better because she has 15 people around her tutoring her and helping her all the That

Lara: 58:28

is true.

Josué: 58:28

The more we're talking about it, it is true that she she very often doesn't believe in herself. Mhmm. But everybody else keeps telling her Yeah. That she is entitled to that power Mhmm. And that she she earned it.

Josué: 58:45

It's

Lara: 58:46

Not only that she's entitled to it and that she quote, unquote earned it, but also that, like, it is her responsibility to use it.

Josué: 58:55

That's so terrible. The more we talk about it, the worse it sounds

Marc: 59:01

to me. Because she's not she's not only

Link: 59:03

true about children's media is once you start pulling on threads, it's like, uh-oh. Yeah.

Josué: 59:09

I'm wrong. But she's literally, like, she is born with right? She's like, you are the reincarnation of this thing. Therefore, just by existing, all of this is yours. Right?

Josué: 59:22

Like like, the the last movie is called Sailor Cosmo. Like, Sailor Moon Cosmo. Right? Like, she she powers up. Like, there's a lot that happens.

Josué: 59:33

Right? She can have the power that she has at the trust me. I Goku can't win. Trust me. Goku Goku can't can't win.

Josué: 59:42

Win.

Link: 59:43

But what we know is that Goku wouldn't give up after losing the first time.

Marc: 59:48

He would train to come back and

Lara: 59:50

I think that's why he wouldn't be able

Link: 59:52

to win the second time either, but he would then go and train to attempt a second time.

Josué: 59:58

I wanna tell you

Lara: 59:59

Or maybe he just make or maybe he just make her his friends.

Marc: 01:00:05

It is true. He'd like, wow. You put up a really good fight. How do you do that? Oh, I just have my friends believing in me.

Marc: 01:00:11

Why didn't I think of that? Let's be friends.

Lara: 01:00:13

And then he would power up.

Josué: 01:00:16

Lara Lara, cover Super your awkward. Your ears. Okay. Cover your ears. Take him take him out.

Josué: 01:00:21

Okay? Look. She spoilers for this other one. At the end, she just recreates the universe the way that she wants. Literally.

Josué: 01:00:32

Everything is she just like, boom. And she just recreates the perfect version of the entire universe because she has the power to do that. So she could just say, this new universe, Goku doesn't exist, or Goku is my dog or whatever. He just okay. Squirrel.

Josué: 01:00:49

Come back. Come back.

Link: 01:00:51

I'm back. I'm back. That's so crazy that Sailor Moon just pulled out a gun and shot Goku.

Josué: 01:00:59

Wow. Where was she hiding that block? Over

Link: 01:01:02

again. It's so crazy.

Josué: 01:01:04

So, Marc, did I convince you? I mean, Goku can't win. Anyway,

Marc: 01:01:08

listen. It's it's so funny because, like, I I remember when when Sailor Moon Crystal came out, I was like, sweet. Like, I haven't seen Sailor Moon since I was a little kid. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna watch this. And then I watched the three seasons, and then it's like, okay, we're making these movies.

Marc: 01:01:24

And then I never got a chance to watch the movies. But I'm like, I've I started rewatching it again, and I'm only two episodes in. And I'm like, oh my god. I do not remember her being this freaking whiny. And like, I

Lara: 01:01:39

That is Marc. I know.

Josué: 01:01:41

Is so number one character.

Marc: 01:01:43

No. Wait. That's

Josué: 01:01:43

like that's But, like, that's

Lara: 01:01:45

what she's known for.

Marc: 01:01:46

But that was my thing.

Josué: 01:01:47

Everybody says tells her.

Marc: 01:01:48

I stopped I stopped watching after season three ended. That was, like, that was almost ten years ago for me Yeah. When season three ended. So, like, I don't I barely remember last Tuesday, let alone what I remembered ten years ago what Sailor Moon was like.

Lara: 01:02:04

I know people that have never watched the show that know that she's whiny.

Marc: 01:02:09

I know. But I I don't know. I think I had a lot of the same, like, issues that Josué was having with it of, like, rewatching it and kinda seeing, like, this whole belief system and just, like, knowing that, like, ah, just just believe in yourself and believe in your friends and everything's gonna be a okay. Like, you're gonna get the power. You've earned that power somehow, and boom.

Marc: 01:02:29

It's gone. You throw your tiara. It's okay. Like, they just turn the dust.

Link: 01:02:34

Could also be a part of the the the girl power fantasy of I can be a huge crybaby and annoying and whiny and people will still love and respect me.

Lara: 01:02:46

Yeah. There's certainly a

Link: 01:02:47

power fantasy to that.

Josué: 01:02:49

But let's clarify. Right? We don't we don't think that's good. Right? Right.

Josué: 01:02:57

Let's just let's just clarify because it's like, oh, this is just what girls think. Right? Like, that's not like if I as I'm hearing your words, I see your face, people can't see your face. So you know, it's a little different. But I just want to clarify

Link: 01:03:08

a little bit. I think there is a kernel of truth to that. And in having experienced, you know, in a version of girlhood, that there is a part of you that's like, I want to throw a fucking temper tantrum. But I also want people to like and respect me.

Lara: 01:03:32

Well, and also the fantasy, I mean, thinking of it as more of an adult who went through girlhood, like, and young womanhood, like, this fantasy of people aren't gonna judge me for having feelings, right?

Link: 01:03:47

In general. That's the much nicer way of phrasing what I said. Yeah. Not

Lara: 01:03:52

exactly. Exactly.

Josué: 01:03:54

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Josué: 01:04:00

Like, I I don't know. I don't want I don't I don't know if I want I would want my kid to

Lara: 01:04:05

to kid whining like Serena. I don't want them whining like Serena, but also, like, having a belief that people can you should believe in your friends and people should believe in you. That's that's a good message to have. And a good message to have from Dragon Ball Z is literally like you keep trying and you can makes like, within reason, you can do things.

Josué: 01:04:36

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for talking this through with me. Again, two of the most popular anime of all time.

Link: 01:04:47

Mhmm.

Josué: 01:04:47

And I think we've we've touched on how we can use them to have conversations about perseverance and belief in both the positive and the negative. Like, we we can use them to show, like, hey, maybe you need a little bit of some, maybe you need less of that. And by the time Gokul died,

Marc: 01:05:08

the positive multiple times.

Josué: 01:05:11

Uh-huh. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Any closing thoughts?

Josué: 01:05:17

Link?

Link: 01:05:18

Anime is cool.

Marc: 01:05:21

Is it an important part of our culture?

Link: 01:05:23

I love you anime, except when I don't.

Lara: 01:05:29

I got no other thoughts.

Marc: 01:05:33

Marc? I would just one one other anime just to bring in at the last second here. Just something that I think combines the elements of Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball z a little bit. It was an anime I watched back in back in my youth, Zatch Bell, where, like, there is elements of, like, training and and building up resilience and, like, you know, trying to overcome obstacles in that regard. However, like, the main source of power for the the the demons is through the book, and that comes through, like, their their it I think they call it heart energy.

Marc: 01:06:16

So, like, they have to actually believe and put their heart into the the spells to in order for them to work. So if they lose that belief, then they don't have the power, which means, you know, they can't do anything. They can't fight. So, like, I think, like, that's just one more to, like, just throw out there as, like, a a way to kind of, like, blend the two elements. But overall, like, that that's that's kinda all I got.

Josué: 01:06:44

Okay. Cool. I've I've heard about Sachemel recently. I've never watched it.

Marc: 01:06:51

Yeah. The English dub only goes to certain so long, and then, like, it goes a little bit longer in just the normal original Japanese. But it doesn't it doesn't cover the whole manga.

Josué: 01:07:04

Okay. Well, I think I've shown my thoughts. Let me know, if I have, mischaracterized, either show or their, systems. If we missed anything, let us know in the show notes. I mean, us know in our community spaces, links in the show notes.

Josué: 01:07:27

More geek therapy, visit geektherapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good. I'll be back next week.

Link: 01:07:32

Bye.

Josué: 01:07:35

Geek therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.