Our Flag Means Death S2
Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. Joining me this week oh, I'm also Josué Cardona. And joining me this week is Marc Cuiriz.
Marc:Hello.
Josué:Link Heller. Yo. And Laura Taylor.
Lara:Hi.
Josué:I remember it was last time that we we spoke about One Piece or the time before.
Marc:But but
Josué:let's talk more about pirates. Let's talk more about pirates. I I was telling someone the other day that our flag our flag means death is a very special show. And I I think the the context that I described it in was that it's it's one of the only shows that I've watched, not just pirate shows, but any show that I've watched, where everybody recognizes that it's, like, important to talk to talk about your feelings. And I was like, that I I think that's the thing that I most think about the show.
Josué:So I'm I'm glad that's we're gonna talk about a few different things in the context of season two of our flag meeting's death.
Link:You could say that we're gonna talk it through as a crew.
Josué:Mhmm. Mhmm. So why why
Lara:Link, how long were you holding on to that joke?
Link:I think it every day of my life. I know none of you guys listen to this podcast, but frequently, when I am writing the descriptions for the podcast episodes, I refer to us as the crew, just for my own personal enjoyment. Mhmm. But now you know.
Josué:It's it's in our Flag Means Flag Means Death reference.
Lara:Mhmm. Cool.
Josué:Cool. GT Crew.
Link:GT Crew.
Josué:So why why why did you wanna talk about our Flag Means Death specifically? Do you have a list link? Like, what's
Link:going on? Have two pages of notes because I rewatched the show just to take some notes on the the best stuff I wanted to talk about. But, I mean, mostly, it's I wanna talk about it because I really, really love this show. It has brought
Marc:me so much joy. It's so funny. It's so heartfelt.
Link:It's is a comedy show that is willing to, like, really touch on darker stuff and and exist in the humor of having to deal with dark shit in our lives. And I think it's just a wonderful show. I don't think that there's another show that compares and I just wanna talk about it with with with my crew, about all the cool stuff that we love and all the yummy yummy geek therapy stuff that's in there.
Josué:I I like, I can't think of another show. Right? It's like, oh, what show what what's the show like that I can compare it to? I'm like, I I don't know. I can't can't think of
Lara:anything.
Link:Close, like, especially season less so season one. But season two, I feel like the closest similar thing I can bring it to is Crazy Ex Girlfriend in that it is comedic, but the characters are, like, broken people who are learning about how to deal with their brokenness and still be present and love each other. And, I I mean, there's there's a musical number in this season. I'm not it's not every episode, but there's at least one, so it's closer than ever.
Josué:That's a hell of a comparison.
Link:Right?
Josué:Yeah. I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:Okay.
Lara:I feel like that's a theme that taco with TD, like, addresses in his shows, movies, whatever. Broken people who Yeah. With a little bit of humor, I think about the Thor movies he's worked on. And that is a thing that he does. But when he has free reign over a bunch of pirates instead of Disney, Marvel corporate telling him what he can do, it's a little like
Josué:well, this is interesting because do you remember how angry I was
Lara:Yes.
Josué:At the second what was it? Was it the third Thor? Which
Lara:one The was
Josué:one with Hulk in it. Which one was that? Ragnarok?
Lara:Ragnarok. Ragnarok.
Josué:Ragnarok. Right? I was so angry because it just, like, it made
Link:It was a very different vibe from Thor one and Thor two.
Josué:No. No. It wasn't it wasn't it was like, he went through all of these losses. Right? And then he just became like a buffoon.
Josué:Right? It, like, it became this this lighthearted comedy in with within the context of him having just lost so many things.
Marc:Mhmm.
Josué:And it just bothered me that I, like, it didn't acknowledge it.
Lara:And yet you love the show.
Josué:Well, but in this show, they acknowledge everything. Right? Like, in this show, everything is, like, head on. Like, they're I mean, like, their conversations are like, you need to talk about this. Right?
Josué:Like, that that's a theme, a running theme throughout the season, which is very different than, like yeah. So it's it's like the the opposite
Lara:It's a eventually, he got there with with the other Thor. I think the other Thor movie and the Marvel or the Avengers movies. Right? With him wanting to talk about Yeah. There's people telling him to talk about things.
Josué:Yeah. But yeah.
Lara:No. This is it's a theme.
Josué:Like, I I'm sure I won't hate Spider Man No Way Home after the, like, sixth Spider Man movie too. Yeah. Right? Like, once it's all put together Yeah. I'll be like, oh, yeah.
Josué:No. No. That was just a moment in time, you know. That was just that was just a thing that was happening. It's okay.
Josué:I'll cut over it. I'll be fine.
Lara:I mean, the other theme in Tekka Waititi's things is how gay he makes things, and I feel like he definitely may somehow made this season gayer than the last one.
Link:Yeah, baby. Love to see it.
Lara:Oh, it's so good and so fun.
Link:Yeah. That was a that was
Lara:a
Link:term we came up with when we recorded about the first season over a year and a half ago. This is queer feasting. It's just there's so so many queer characters and and different types of relationships, and it's so beautiful to see. It makes me so happy. Yep.
Lara:Yep. Mhmm.
Josué:And I I know we spoke about that last time, but this season does it as well where it's like, everybody just is. Like, that's it. Everybody's just being that's it.
Lara:There's has to come out about anything. It's just
Josué:There's nothing Except for the
Lara:first season with Jim. Right? Like, what
Josué:Nobody nobody bats an eye. Right? Like, I I remember and this happened in the first season. But when shit. What's the Gentleman Pirate's name?
Link:Steed Bonnet.
Josué:Steed Bonnet. When Steed tells his wife, right, she's like, like, who is she is she nice? And he's like, he is nice. And she's just like, I'm so happy for you. Right?
Josué:Like, that's it. Like, it's just it just it is. Like, it's a world where, like, again, it's refreshing. I know we spoke about that the first time as well, but that continues for sure. Alright.
Josué:So what's on the list? Like, what's in your notes? Kick us off.
Link:Okay. So let's let's start off with the, you know, the the first episode as we come back into our separated crew, and we get to see what's Blackbeard and Jim, Frenchie, and Fang. And Ivan is still there, though. Ivan does die off screen, Rip. But they they are being pirates.
Link:They're they're going hard. They're doing a lot of pillaging and plundering and murdering, and I love that it opens with a wedding scene that is fucked up. And then Jim is just like, do you think maybe the wedding thing was a bit too far with the rest of the crew? And they start talking about, like like, the I think I think we've hit a threshold point where we need to do something about this. And Frenchie has a line about, like, oh, it's fine.
Link:And Jim's like, how are you handling this so well? And Frenchie's just like, oh, I just you know, all of the fucked up stuff that happens to me, I just there's some box in my mind, and I put it in the box, and I never opened the box again. I was like, wow. That's relatable. That is a way that people deal with trauma.
Link:Just full disassociation from it. And I love that that is like an ongoing thing that they are grappling with in this season is like, how how do you move past the trauma? How do you become okay again in the different ways that the different characters have to grapple with that? Because it's personal. There's not a there's not an answer that applies to everybody.
Link:But but, yeah, let's let's let's start there. We're talking about, like, how how the different crew members are dealing with the trauma of how the first season ended.
Josué:Well but also, like, you you mentioned the dissociation. Like, it was Frenchie, right? Who said that? Who said that about the box? Right?
Josué:That's like that's that's like a that's a coping mechanism. Right? Like, said, like, that's just how he deals with stuff always. Who knows how long he's been dealing with stuff in that particular way. It's yeah.
Josué:That one. That one. That was funny when he said that, but it's like, oh, man. That's kinda it's kinda sad.
Lara:Well, but in some ways, right, like, when I first heard it, I was like, oh, yeah. He's never gonna open the box again. But, like, there are methods that people use, like, when prepping for EMDR and things where you have a box and you put the trauma in the box and you close the box and you keep it safe. And then when you're ready to work on the things again, take out the box and you open the box and you work on things. So it's not all just bad.
Lara:You just gotta open the box again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:And so yes. A lot of shit happened in in season one.
Lara:A lot.
Josué:And but, like, they're still under, like it because of the dynamic of the crew, like, they still have a captain. Right? They kinda have to do what the captain tells them to do.
Lara:Yeah. They're still in the trauma.
Josué:Yeah. I mean, they do. It leads to a mutiny, but, you know, before the mutiny, there's definitely, like, they're just doing what is and and you're right. Like, so so it the wedding is so fucked up. Mhmm.
Josué:Like, there was no right? Like, there were they had too much treasure, so just like, oh, just get rid of the treasure. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, we're just being just fucking with you
Link:all overboard so that we have space to go get more treasure.
Josué:Yep. Yep. It it doesn't seem to be about the treasure.
Link:And it wasn't. It wasn't about the treasure. It was about Ed grappling with his incredible levels of self loathing and his enduring desire to self destruct.
Josué:Yeah. And that was his way of dealing with the rejection and grief of getting stood up by
Lara:Steed.
Josué:By Steed, abandoned, all that.
Link:Yeah. Yeah. Just follow that thread and skip forward a little bit. But when when Ed almost dies and he's in the the gravy basket, which one, I love as a terminology, but also I when I wrote it in my notes, I spelled gravy wrong. So it's grave and then a y, and I was like, oh, I'm funny.
Link:Even better. The gravy pass. Okay.
Josué:No. So you didn't The most lengthy thing I've heard.
Marc:You you didn't misspell it. You were simply just prepping for the pun.
Link:Were channeling the pun. The the power of pun compels me. But I I love all of the symbology of that scene, but I do I do love that it is very much centering the idea that that Ed Edward, his, like, foundational belief about himself is that he is unlovable. And so anytime something happens that he can be like, look, there is further evidence that I am unlovable. Stede left without a note.
Link:I couldn't possibly imagine any other situation that might have potentially come out. It's just he doesn't love me because I am unlovable. And him wanting to
Josué:trigger warning for for for this.
Link:Yes. There there is lots of suicide and suicide adjacent stuff in this season, which I personally enjoy because it is meaningful to me to see this stuff talked about in media, especially with, like, the kindness and care that this show brings to all of its characters. But that that is what Ed is dealing with. He has such a a firm belief that he is unlovable and he wants so badly to destroy that part of himself because he can't he can't bear to continue to exist in that way. And I love this idea of of the the extremely thin line between suicide and self destruction because what he wants is he he doesn't wanna die.
Link:He wants to be destroyed in such a way that he no longer has to be Blackbeard. He wants Blackbeard to die. And I think that that's so yummy to talk about that idea of, like, when I was younger and was coping with lots of, like, suicidal ideation, like, that's sort of what it came down to. It wasn't so much that I didn't want to exist anymore. It's I didn't wanna exist this way.
Link:It's the Mhmm. I wanted to destroy the self that I was so that I could be a different self. And I think that that is that is the thing that that Ed and Blackbeard is constantly grappling with. Are you guys With
Lara:all the well, with all these people who are around him who expect him to be Blackbeard and expect him to be this person, especially Izzy. Right? Who I mean, they eventually get to some kind of understanding, but Izzy pushes him to be this dark thing. And you see on land, Steed's like, that's not my guy. He doesn't do that.
Lara:Like, not anymore. And he when when Steed abandoned him, he doubled, tripled, quadrupled down on doing the things that Blackbeard does, murder and, you know
Link:Arson.
Lara:Pillaging pill arson, pillaging ships, and just continuing to pillage ships to keep running away from this and and destroy Blackbeard in this way. But yeah. I think it's interesting that he has all these other people's opinions of who he should be and who he is also in the mix, not just his own opinions of who he should be and who he is and, like, where he's going.
Josué:The piracy is also self soothing. Right? And it's like, hey, this is this is
Lara:This is what I know
Josué:to do. This this brought me joy in the past. Like, let me try that again. Let me try drinking again. Let me try just
Lara:Listen. If you never touch land, the people can't abandon you.
Josué:Mhmm. Mhmm. It's true.
Lara:They're stuck on this bug.
Josué:Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say,
Marc:I really liked the visualization of the whole gravy basket concept, you know, just because of with me and now kind of be entering, like, the mental health field and and doing all this sort of stuff. Like, this is, a concept that I feel like I I try to incorporate. And it's like that like, where we are in terms of, like, our our core foundation or concepts of who we are as individuals that's so innately ingrained into us where we get to a point where we don't recognize it. So, like, for for Blackbeard, when he's in the gravy basket, he sees Horn of Gold, and he's like, why the hell are you here? I hate you.
Marc:Like, what's going on? And then, like, he's trying to actively get rid of that piece of him. And then it's only, like, towards, like, the end where it's like, nah, dude. Like, I'm I'm just a reflection of you, but because you hate yourself that much, like, that's why I am who I am. I thought that was such a really cool way for for Blackbeard to sort of confront this core belief that he has of himself.
Marc:And by being able to finally confront that, he was then able to then look for instances or in this case, instances where that wasn't the case. And because of that, then he was able to slowly pull himself out of the fog that he was in. And, I mean, that's not to say, like, you know, he's all fine and dandy now. Like, no. There's still a huge healing process, and it's it's still a thing that he, you know, works on throughout the entire the rest of the season.
Marc:But I think that concept of him finally facing this part of himself, acknowledging that it was there and acknowledging that this is how he thought of himself and then having the courage to start moving forward from it, I thought that was I thought the way they they, like, they visualize that, the way it was played out was just it was just beautiful. Chef's kiss.
Link:Mermaids.
Josué:We never mentioned that, like, that the gravy basket is, like, purgatory or limbo.
Link:Yes. I'm one who's
Josué:referring to it.
Marc:It's like, oh, yeah. That that sounds like a good word for it. I just called it Yeah. The gravy
Link:Mermaid steed was truly a gift to the people. I also I love I love that there's, like, behind the scenes footage of, like, oh, yeah. We're doing all of this, like, training and stuff to get ready for filming season two. And you're like, oh, they must be doing, like, all this sword fighting and stuff. It's good at, like, maybe they're gonna do, like, rope swings and things.
Link:It's like, no. Rhys Darby was practicing wearing his mermaid suit and swimming. Swimming. It's so cute. Beautiful.
Josué:What's next on your on your on your notes?
Link:I guess I guess we're already touching on the the suicide self destruction stuff. That that does reflect back to the way Stede was in season one where he, you know, self destructed his own life by leaving to become a pirate. And then that is reflected again in a new character this season, Ricky, Prince Ricky, who is sort of another take on Stede as being like this bored rich guy who's like, I love pirate stories. That seems like fun and cool. I wanna do that.
Link:And getting to see the difference in the way that Stede, who went and got a ship and got a crew and then treated all of the crew really nice and actually, like, built something versus Ricky who just wants to, like, come in by himself and maintain the, glory of piracy and seeing how they they, you know, reflect and antagonize each other is really cool. But he said Ricky says to Steed, he's like, the gentleman pirate is my hero. I was gonna kill myself until I was like, oh, maybe I'll be a pirate instead. And so I love that that's like this ongoing thing between all of these different characters. Was like, my old life, I couldn't bear anymore.
Link:And so what how do I get out of it? What do I do to make moves? Yeah. I think that's I think that's really yummy.
Josué:And but it's the way I see it is in Steve's case, he,
Marc:like yeah.
Josué:He's unhappy, and there's a version of it. Like like, I don't see it as self destructive or even self sabotaging. He was just like, I'm I wanna change, and I'm gonna do it this way. He didn't do it, like, for his family in the best way. Like, he could have handled it differently, but he he just left.
Josué:And then Ricky, he wants that
Marc:also.
Lara:Think that that
Link:counts as destruction of his life. Like, he he was a landowner and had a wife and children and he just left. Left.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. But I mean, you're using the term self destruction. So maybe maybe I'm thinking of it differently. He blew up his life. Yes.
Josué:Yes. But I'm but, like, I think there's a difference between, like, the term self sabotage, right, where it's like you you're working against your own interests, where here, his interest was to leave. Like, he didn't want that anymore. Of course, he could have handled it differently. He could have been like, hey, honey.
Josué:I think we should get a divorce. Right? Like, let's talk about what to do with the kids. Like, he didn't do anything like that. He did not responsibly take care of it, but he he wanted a change.
Josué:And so he he he had a change, and then he found his crew and all that stuff. Whereas Ricky
Link:I guess I should specify
Josué:different motivations.
Link:Think that self destruction is inherently a bad thing.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm using self sabotage. I'm thinking of self sabotage as a, like, more how it's used in mental health than like, I'm not, you know, like, I'm I'm I'm referring to it a little differently.
Josué:Yeah. And then and then Ricky, he, like, just at the beginning of getting into that into that lifestyle that he wanted, he basically got abandoned. Right? Because he's he like, they oh, he went in with stupid and Spanish Jack. He got him.
Josué:And then and then after that, he's just like then he does a full one eighty, and it's just like, oh, well, fuck the pirates. I'm gonna have revenge on all of them because they didn't let me into the club. Like, they didn't right? That's the way that's the way that I riddance. Listen.
Lara:Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. That's why he shouldn't
Marc:have left the calling card.
Josué:Also yeah. No. I mean, again, also not not right. Like, I I feel like he I mean, they both wanted, like, a play a way to belong. Right?
Josué:And, like, I mean, steed Yeah. Accomplished that where Ricky, he he messed up really early on. And so he fell back to what he had.
Link:I think the distinction is is that because, like, Ricky is a prince, but he's, a minor prince. And so it's like, he's not looking for connection the way that Stede was. He is looking to be more important. And so he can't be more important than the lowly prince that he is. But if he goes to the sea, then there's not princes there.
Link:You could be the the king of pirates or whatever. And so I think his is more, like, focused on himself, and Steed is more focused on, I don't have a connection with my wife. I need a connection.
Lara:I need to connect and make a family. Right? Yeah. Which is what he does.
Link:Just what he does. The crew.
Josué:I hate Ricky. I don't I'm not I'm not I'm not entirely sure what his motivations are.
Link:I think I think Ricky Ricky's introduction, the outfit he's wearing when he first gets on scene, he looks so cool. I was like, oh, I like this guy. And then I was like, oh, I don't like this guy. I'm excited for him to be destroyed.
Josué:Again, to to me, he just seems right, like, he's just vindictive Mhmm. After after, you know, things didn't work out, you know, on the first on the first try. So he's just doing whatever he can to get back at the, you know, the cool kids who didn't let him join the club.
Marc:I I was kinda, like, hoping that they would do some sort of, like, play with, like, the nose thing. And I I mean, they made some jokes, but, like, aside from that, I was like, man, like, you couldn't have, like, like, knocked him out and put something funny there. It was like a, you know, was like a replacement. Like, something like that. Like, that's something I was, like, looking forward to just like, oh, like, some like, as a as a character to have him just be completely humiliated like that, like, just have something completely obscene or something totally ridiculous on his on his face.
Marc:Like, that would have been really funny, and I'm sad it didn't happen. I'm hoping it'll happen. That's just how much that character annoyed me. Like, after like, as soon as the calling card thing as soon as that whole conversation happened, I
Lara:was like getting what you deserve, man.
Marc:I was like, dude, you're done. Like, why? Why would you do that? Like
Josué:You you didn't think the porcelain nose was funny?
Marc:That's that was pretty good. Was I
Lara:mean, it looked nicer than the nose he wears all the time.
Marc:It was I thought the first one was like a wooden nose and then he had the porcelain one and then it looked like the last nose like kinda like a gold.
Lara:Wouldn't it have been good if they'd given him like a Pinocchio nose?
Link:Yeah. I mean They called him Pinocchio.
Marc:Exactly. That's all I was like
Lara:could have given him
Link:a Pinocchio nose. Which Pinocchio as as a tale to reference within your story is like so symbolic and delicious within this this groove. I love I love when Jim tries to tell the Pinocchio story to Fang and then Archie is over overhearing his I wanna be a fleshy boy. That was so funny. But that that idea of the the I want I want to be a real boy, that idea is like so symbolic of all of these different characters, like, internal struggles of, like, I wanna feel real.
Lara:Yum.
Marc:But but what if I wanna be a real bird?
Lara:You can do it.
Josué:I'm
Marc:not gonna lie. That part confused me probably the most of this entire season because mainly because I just probably don't remember what happened in season one, but I was like, wait. What? What is happening here? Why did he turn into a bird?
Link:The show tends to stay away from, like, magic stuff except when it comes to buttons. It was like, that guy no. That guy is a sea witch, and he does have magic.
Josué:It's like a mystical character. Yeah. Mhmm. It's a
Link:cool guy. I mean, fingers crossed. We get a season three, and and we find out what happens to Buttons. Maybe Buttons comes back. Who knows?
Lara:I I Maybe I it's just the seagull.
Link:Maybe it's just the seagull.
Marc:Maybe but I found that so fun, and they're like, oh, yeah. So you're sticking to that story.
Link:Yes. Roach is great.
Marc:He turned into a bird.
Link:I do I do love that buttons turning into the bird is is right before that happens, Ed is like, men can't change. And then he turns he turned into a bird. Men can change. There is hope for me yet. It's beautiful.
Lara:If he can be a bird, I cannot be Blackbeard. Yes.
Link:Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I liked I liked that episode a lot when they're they're on land and they meet Anne Bonny and Mary Reid who were so great, so funny. I love sapphic sword based violence.
Lara:Set her own damn house on fire.
Link:Yep. Because I love you. I got your little gift in my drink, the poison. I love you.
Marc:Oh, we just like she just likes to spice things up. Just, you know, getting a good old knife in the back.
Lara:Get get a knife
Link:in there. Yeah. I love I love that with the leading up to the yelling, like, this is what an adult relationship looks like Ed and Steed who are, like, very much the in the, like, we need to talk about our relationship stage. That was so funny. She's like, yeah.
Link:Yeah. It's just stabbing each other and waiting to see who dies first. That's an adult relationship, you guys, obviously.
Lara:Just you wait. You'll be setting your house on fire and poisoning each other and stabbing each other in no time. It's fine.
Josué:Of course. Right? Like, so so Steve and and Ed are like like you said, we need to talk. We or they want they don't wanna talk. And, like, their relationship is very, you know
Lara:It wasn't a relationship at that point.
Josué:It wasn't a relationship at that point. And then they see this dysfunctional relationship, and they're like, yeah. I can we can. We weren't that bad. We could probably could probably yeah.
Josué:We're we're we're we might be okay if we try again or if we we should talk.
Lara:We can do better.
Josué:We can do better than that. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Marc:And I I do like how, like, with Ed and and Steed, how after that whole interaction, like, they they're able to have that kind of open discussion of, like, hey. Like, this is what I'm I'm ready for. Like, I'm not ready for all this just yet, but, like, I I wanna take this slow and, like, setting those boundaries of, I this is what I want. Like, and I want this for us. I want us to be this way, but I'm you know, Ed's like, I'm I'm not there yet.
Marc:Like, I'm still trying to figure out my own stuff. And then they kinda see what happens when that gets kinda rushed a little bit, and then, you know, Stede gets his you know, gains infamy for his one kill. And then you see that kind of like them having that disco like, well, in this case, an argument of, like like, this this like, I we said this, we established this, and then we went ahead and went too fast anyway. And this is a lot. This is too much.
Marc:And then taking that step back and and for Ed to kind of have that, like, you know, self reflection and then have him kind of, like, think back on kind of how everything's been and then kind of realize, okay, like, I've I'm gonna do what I do best and this is what I'm good at. And he can chew he can still do those things that he's good at and that he's best at without necessarily having it's like he's learned to make peace with what he can do and what he does best while also not having that be so closely tied to who he is as an individual. Like, he he's gained the growth where he's established this identity of who he wants to be as a person, but it's in no way connected to the fact that, you know, he can pillage and murder a whole army.
Link:Did you catch that when when Ed leaves and decides to go be a fisherman and he goes and he finds a man who he calls Pop Pop who yells at him and hits him
Josué:Mhmm.
Link:Like his own dad.
Lara:Mhmm.
Link:And it's like this this cycle where he's like, I gotta I gotta go back to my roots. But then this time, he doesn't murder his pop pop. So that's growth. Murder
Lara:pop pop.
Link:Yeah. He just calls him a dick as he rose away. That's growth, I think. That's growth for Ed.
Lara:That's growth for
Link:a lot of people. That's growth for a lot of people.
Marc:Didn't didn't, like, when he came back and, like, he had all his leather back on, didn't he say, like, this is for you, Pop Pop, or something like that? He he made something about he said one more statement about pop up
Josué:and then
Link:He's just like, dude, you're what you're at. And so he puts on the Blackbeard persona and and goes ape shit because he is good at it. He is
Josué:He is.
Link:Talented at that skill set.
Marc:Yep. He's got a very unique set of skills. And
Lara:he uses them to save the pirates.
Marc:But more importantly, Stede. But, you know, Stede did some cool stuff.
Link:Stede does do some cool stuff.
Lara:Mhmm.
Link:He's got an earring now.
Marc:It hurt like hell apparently.
Josué:The way he set that guy on fire, very cool. Coolest thing he's ever done.
Link:Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. Totally not important, but very funny to me personally. In the first season, in one of the earlier episodes when Ed and Stede go to the fancy party on the ship and then light the ship on fire and row away from it as it is burning.
Link:And then on the Calico Jack episode, they talk about burning ships again, and Stede is like, oh, that's like, he's acting like that's so awful. How could you possibly do that? I was like, you did that already two episodes ago. And then in this season, and Blackbeard's like, oh, I missed your first emulation. I was like, you were there.
Link:It already happened. He's he's already burned a bunch of people. This isn't the first one. I just love that that is some it has become a joke, and I have no idea if it's intentional or not.
Lara:But it is
Link:a joke. It's like, nobody nobody counts burning the French. That doesn't count.
Josué:It's the French. Thanks for the reminder. I forgot about that.
Link:Good one.
Marc:Well, I mean, if you took it I mean, if you take a look at it, who was the one that actually, like, set the fire? Was it Steed or was it Blackbeard? Who was the one who actually start the flames?
Link:It was it was Steed. It was Stede playing that fun little game of, like, I know all of your secrets. And then a rolling cart with a candle on it ran into a wall, and the whole ship caught on there because
Marc:Classic steed just bumbling his way through
Lara:the Did he do it on purpose?
Link:No. But he had a fun time doing it. So
Josué:Still, it was badass when he just flicked the thing at
Marc:the Yeah. He's just like, okay. And boom.
Link:That's pretty cool.
Josué:Going
Link:back a little bit when the crew lets Ed come back onto the ship and they gave they give him they give him a little outfit and a bell so he can't sneak up on people. I loved that episode and how they sort of talked about, like, the idea of, like, making amends for all of the trauma that Blackbeard imposed upon the crew. It's a spaceship. It's a safe spaceship. I'd love the I would wear that shirt.
Link:But, having the interaction between Lucius who is very traumatized by, the things that happened to him starting with Blackbeard pushing him off the ship and then several other traumas in the interim before he is reunited with Stede and the rest of the crew, which that re reunion teared up. I love Lucius so much. I was so excited that he was still alive. But he he has this moment with with Ed where he's all like, you can't do anything to fix this. And Ed's like, well, like, would it help if you pushed me off the ship?
Link:It's like, what if you did the same action back to me? And I like that idea of like, oh, that that could work. That could be big. Let's try that. And they do it and then you can see Lucius is like that it it wasn't as satisfying as he hoped it would be.
Link:And I I contextually, I love that the ship is called the revenge and we have this revenge moment where Lucius gets to do it back and it's like, it's not it's not enough. It's not enough by itself. It needs something else. And so I I love that. And then the follow-up with Lucius and Izzy talking about it where Lucius is still clearly upset and Izzy's like, you you just let it go.
Link:And Lucius is like, oh, Izzy Izzy's like, oh, I did Blackbeard didn't shoot me and lead to my leg being chopped off. I was dangling my legs over the side of the boat and a shark bit me and it's my my own fault. And Lucius says like, oh, that seems healthy, like, using a bit of fiction to help cope with your trauma, which we talk about that here in like narrative therapy and stuff like that. But, Izzy responds with not moving on is worse And I think that that that is such a powerful moment which is added to, in my opinion, by Izzy giving Lucius the carved shark that he made. It turns out Lucius' love language is receiving whittled goods because that was that was like so romantic.
Link:But I I loved that that whole part where it's like we get to see Lucius' is receiving this moment of like, I get to, like, return to you the damage that was done to me by you, but it doesn't fix the wound. It's still there. And how do I cope with that? And is he just being like, I don't know, but you do because not coping with it is worse.
Josué:You just have
Lara:a bunch of nodding heads. Yeah. We all agree.
Marc:Yeah. Like that. I feel like I for me, when that when that scene first played out, like I, you know, before recording, I mentioned that, like, I was binge watching it, the show while I was at work. So, like, you know, I was passively watching it. But, like, when it became time for, like, important scenes like this one, I actually had to stop what I was doing.
Marc:I had to rewind it back and, like, I had to watch the scene over again because I'm like, hold on. Like this this is like a big moment of like, wow. Like for him to say like, yeah, you know what? Like, I don't I don't know what how you do it, but you gotta do something because choosing to stay stuck on it for so long isn't gonna do anything. It's gonna make everything worse.
Marc:And you even see that happening because Lucius is so preoccupied with this hurt that it's impacting not only his daily living, but it's also start beginning to impact his relationships and how he talks about other people, or in this case, how he's so distracted and then becomes so distant from other people because he is so preoccupied with this particular trauma, which, you know, not to say like ignore it, but he chose to not he chose to basically just let it just sit there and not address it, not try to cope with it, not try to deal with it, and then try to throw it back in everyone's face every single time. Like, do you not remember? Do you not remember?
Link:Is on the floor.
Lara:Yeah.
Link:I do I do love what Pete says to him. It's like, I keep hearing you talking about how you almost died. You almost died, but I don't hear you talking about how you lived. Like, yes. Speak the truth, Black Pete.
Link:Also, side note, that moment where Lucius reveals the big portrait that he made of Black Pete, that and then Izzy's carving the shark, I think is this a great example of art is treatments for dealing with your trauma. Art helps.
Josué:Agreed.
Lara:Definitely agreed.
Josué:Iron on all cylinders today, Link. Yeah. It's good shit.
Link:We could tie that into Calypso's birthday, which one, I want to be a real holiday, and I want it to happen quarterly.
Marc:What do you mean? It is a real holiday.
Link:It's today. Josue, didn't you know today is Calypso's birthday?
Lara:Aren't you
Link:gonna throw us a party? Damn. Come on, captain. But, yeah, Calypso's Calypso's birthday. What a gorgeous episode.
Link:Like, just, like, set design and everything, everybody's costumes. Weejohn in his calypso drag outfit. So beautiful and so important that they did specifically drag makeup for Weejohn and Izzy. Like, beautiful. And and Izzy getting to sing La Vie en Rose.
Link:Oh my god. I wept because I love that song anyways. But then he's like, oh, Izzy's redemption. Beautiful. I loved Calypso's birthday, but I think that that's another way that, you know, they're doing music, they're decorating.
Link:Like, that's another way they are doing something, like, creative and artistic, like, together as a crew, and that is, like, healing for all of them.
Josué:Also, I mean, when they bring it up to to Seed and and to Blackbeard, right, it's like it's obviously not true.
Link:But It's fake holiday. Let's let's let them do it. So? Who cares if it's fake if it helps?
Josué:Yeah. Exactly.
Lara:It's a bonding moment for the two different traumas this whole crew has gone through. Like, they get to build something together, have fun. Yeah. Let them do what they need to do to heal.
Josué:That's the thing. Right? Is it is it beneficial? Does it help? It's like the the changing of the story of the of the leg.
Josué:It's like, what sure. You could change a story and have it be denial. Right? And you can deny that something happened, or you can reframe, like you like, like the you're always talking about, you know, how you almost died, but you're not talking about how you, you know, how you lived. It's like, hey.
Josué:We can we can reframe these things. We can we can actually spin this around because that can be when done right, it can be helpful. This again, this show is just full of positive shit like that. Just constant. Yeah.
Josué:And Calypso's birthday
Lara:is on.
Link:So good. Like, it's it really gets into, like, dark shit, and then it's still so funny. Like like, when Izzy gets shot and his leg is rotting, and they're like, we should cut it off. Jim's like, which one? And Archie says, oh, the the fucked up one.
Link:The other one's probably fine. Jim's like, no. Like, which one? And he's holding an axe and a saw, for the is the amputation? So funny in such a dark fucked up setting.
Link:It's just doing Yeah. Z surgery, which historically goes well every time. It does not. It does not usually. But, yes, I I love that.
Marc:Yeah. I think I think Steve kinda put it best because during Calypso's birthday, when they say you know, when when the crew comes to them and it's like, hey, captains. Like, we're you know, it's Calypso's birthday. We gotta throw a party, and they're talking about that. It's you know, shortly before that, Stede and and Ed are talking about how the treasure to Ed is just a it's just a what do you call it?
Marc:They're like pieces to have him remember all the guilt and shame that he felt from the actions that he did prior, you know, that like, in in the very beginning of the season. And Steve says, well, you know, let's turn this poison into positivity. And this is where that reframing comes in. He's like, know what? We could we could choose to sit here and stare at all this treasure and be like, damn, I did some fucked up shit.
Marc:Or we could go take this treasure and spend a good amount of it for the the good of the crew. Like, yeah, like you guys said, like, they got stuff they gotta work out. This is a chance for them to just have some fun and apparently give kids 15,000 doubloons and some knives to That
Link:scene was so funny. Did you those are those are Taika Waititi's actual children. Mhmm. I just love the idea of him being like, do you wanna come to work with daddy today? Yeah.
Link:Guess what? Daddy's gonna give you a knife. And they're like, I'm in. Let's do it. Let's do it, dad.
Link:I'm down.
Marc:Yeah. He's like, I want a knife too. He's like, alright. You you'll get a knife. But I like how he gives him, like, significantly, like, smaller knife and then, like, gives her, like, the dag like, big dagger.
Link:Big old,
Marc:like, farm. Anybody that tries to come.
Josué:She's obviously the older kid.
Link:Slashing. Yeah. Mhmm.
Marc:He's like, you know what? Stab anybody that tries to come near your money.
Link:That was very funny.
Lara:Very key life lessons to take his children.
Josué:Alright. What else, Link?
Link:Oh, I guess, like, the last main thing in my notes is at the end of the season when Prince Ricky has captured all of the pirates and is like, I'm going to hang you and I'm act I'm actually the best pirate because I defeated all of the other pirates. Talk about reframing. But he pulls Izzy aside because Izzy is very infamous and is talking to him. And Izzy has this quote that I wrote down because I thought it was important, where he is talking about pirating. And Izzy says, it's not about glory, it's not about getting what you want, it's about belonging to something when the world has told you you're nothing.
Link:It's about finding the family to kill for when yours are all long dead. It's about letting go of ego for something larger, the crew. I love that so much. And he he adds on later, says, go ahead and kill us. Our spirit will last throughout your entire fucking empire.
Link:And I think that aspect reflects real life in that pirates often were queer people because it was illegal on lands, but you can't
Lara:there's no laws
Link:on the sea. And so that idea of, like, the British Empire is like, we're going to destroy piracy. And it's like, you can try, but queer people still exist, and we will outlive your empire. You
Lara:not funny because that made me think of Star Wars. And, like, strike me down, and I will live on forever.
Link:Yeah. Powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Lara:Imagine. Mhmm.
Josué:So I also wrote down that that that quote. That's that that was something I mean, I even journaled on on that quote one day when I watched the episode. Because I'm in that existential crisis right now of, like, I don't know what I wanna do with my life. And Izzy just has is just, like, so clear. He's like, why do you think we're pirates?
Josué:Like, this is about family, man. This is you know, like, we we've we belong to something bigger. Like, there's we don't it's not what I wanna do. It's about it's about the crew. Like, we're all in this together.
Josué:And I was like, shit. Like, I I don't he's very clear on what he and what he's doing with his life, and I'm not. And and it messed with me, but it was it was he's such a good character. He's such a good character. But that but that moment, right, it's it's like you said, Ricky is oh, like, I'm I'm gonna be I'm I'm more pirate than the pirates.
Josué:It's like, you idiot. No. You have no idea what being a pirate is. That's why earlier I said, like, you know, to him it was just like the cool kids group, you know, that he wanted to be a part of. It's like, he didn't really understand what
Link:I also just realized, I don't think we oh, no. Never mind. Never mind. I was gonna say I don't I don't think we ever see Ricky, like, on the sea being a pirate, but I think he does meet when he meets with Shangyi Tsao. I think that's on her.
Link:Oh, yeah.
Josué:She's on the boat.
Lara:Yeah.
Link:Yeah. But that would have been pretty funny to just feel like, I'm gonna be the the best pirate of all. Was like, you don't even go to the ocean. What are you doing?
Josué:I've been on the water. Yeah. Yeah. It's something you said about, you know, like, why some people might might have been pirates. We didn't talk about this when when I brought up one piece a couple episodes ago.
Josué:But, like, that entire show, now that I now that I've watched the show and I I can I can I'm an informed person about it? Like like, the pirates are basically just opposing the central government. There's, like, a government, and the whole show is about, like they're like, oh, hell no. Like, we're just we're actually gonna do our own thing, and we're not gonna follow those rules. And but that's, like, that's it.
Josué:There are no there are no piracy rules. Like, that's the rule. So you have stuff in I mean, like, in our flag meetings, Seth, you have you have the gentleman pirate. Right? And and and his particular crew.
Josué:I mean, in in one piece, you have, like, the hard pirates that all they want to do is, like, make help children smile with music. Like, they're just they're just doing whatever the hell they want, and they're doing it out on the sea because they can't do that on land. So
Lara:Well, and even in, like, when you look at Pirates of the Caribbean, like, talk about rules, but they're more they're more just like guidelines. Mhmm. There's more there's more guidelines. So yeah. Fighting against all of it.
Lara:And fighting against the government. And
Josué:Yeah. We're just living outside of it. Right? It's like, we don't even have to fight the government. We're just like, we're just not gonna be a part of it.
Josué:We don't have to steal. We don't have to pillage. We don't have to.
Link:I do not
Josué:treasure. We just wanna hang out. We just wanna play music.
Link:Mhmm. Yes.
Marc:Guys, let's become pirates.
Josué:We're a crew already. Right?
Marc:Yeah. Already
Link:a Let's do it. I
Lara:get seasick.
Marc:We'll be land pirates that are living outside of the government.
Lara:Land pirates. Got it.
Josué:So I I I kinda said this at the beginning, but we we talk we talked about how when I watched Thor Ragnarok, I was so angry because it's like, this man is going through some stuff, and nobody's gonna talk about it. And it just infuriated me. It's part of why I hate the end of No Way Home. But I was I've been watching a few shows lately where, like, horrible things are happening. And, like, we're being like, they're being dismissed and nobody's talking about them.
Josué:And I and I've actually, was watching one show recently where, like, this father has been keeping the secret from the main character for his entire life, and he discovers, right, like, like, his father has been lying. And when his father is like, I guess we have a con we have to have a conversation. And the main character goes, no. Whenever you're ready to tell me, then you can tell me. And I was like, get out of here.
Josué:What? No. He's been lying to you your whole life. What do you mean? I mean, I wanna know too, but, like, how how are you just so easily just brushing this off?
Josué:I was like, ugh. And so I bring that up to say that this show, again, is the opposite of that. This show is just completely like, oh, wait a minute. We're feeling things. Let's talk about our feelings.
Josué:And the entire crew is like that. And it's just it's just just so refreshing for me to see that, but it's also such a it's just, like, example after example after example of openness and talking about things and how important it is or how beneficial it can be to not hold things in and actually talk things through. And there's never there's never a version of this in the show where it's like, this person is this other person's therapist. Right? It's more like it's just displaying healthy behaviors across the board, like healthy communication.
Josué:And sure, people fuck up and they do and the you know, and things happen.
Link:They're still pirates.
Josué:No. But, like, things happen. Like, you make mistakes even just as people. But then but then we talk about it. Right?
Josué:Like, we have a conversation and we let and we we express our feelings. And and just again, the crew is like, yeah. Like, I mean, something's going. Like, you're not okay. Like, do you like, just just talk to us about it.
Link:You know? I do love that when when the two halves of the the crew of the revenge have, like, a moment where they're at each other's throats because, like, I thought you were being suspicious and I've been in trauma for so long. I'm assuming everything is a threat to my personhood. They're all holding knives and guns at each other. And then Izzy comes in and he's just wasted and miserable and then he falls down and everybody comes together.
Link:He's like, he's worse than us. We should maybe help him. And I love that idea of, like, community. Like you said, it's like, there's not one person who's like, you're in charge of fixing us. You're our therapist.
Link:It's like, no. We're all in this together And nothing brings people together like like, our community needs us. So like, we're gonna we're gonna join together to help Izzy.
Josué:And well, I mean, but I mean, take take that like a few scenes earlier. Right? The reason why they're at each other's throats is because half of them are seeing the other half, and they're like, they've they're traumatized. They're not doing well. Let's do something nice for them.
Link:Something nice for them. And they're like
Josué:And they they bake a cake, and the cake just brings back the trauma about the wedding. So then they're like, why are you doing this? Are you doing this to mess with us? That's like the misunderstanding, but they talk it through. Right?
Josué:Like, they they're still, like, such a such a good family. I do
Link:I do love that. We we assumed you were plotting against us, which in retrospect may have been a mistake. I I love that Frenchie does just straight up say that, like, we may have been misreading the situation. I will admit to that.
Josué:It was a cake after all, you know.
Link:I wonder if at Lucius and Pete's wedding at the end, if Roach made cake or if we had a different dessert for that wedding. I do love that we opened and closed with a wedding. That was so fun. And then also fun detail, the the Maid Lodge ceremony traditionally, the captain would be the officiant of that and I loved the symbolism of the crew did that together. Ed and and Steed were there as support.
Link:They were not leading this endeavor. And I thought that was really beautiful because it really it circles back to what Izzy had said where it's like, it's not about you as an individual. It is about the crew. Yeah.
Josué:What a good season.
Link:I love this show so much, you guys.
Josué:Are we getting a season three? Do we know?
Link:We don't know.
Lara:I think and I think that's why the ending kinda was the way that it was. It looks like it could be either way. Right? There's more to continue at war. You get a nice little wrap up with Steed and Ed if it were to not get continued.
Josué:Have any of you watched Ted Lasso? Ted Lasso show?
Marc:No. I've been told that I need to watch it, but no.
Lara:Also been told that I need to watch it.
Josué:The reason the reason why I bring it up is because that show, I think, is amazing. I think I mean, to me, it is it's just it's just amazing. Right? It's like it feels like like this. Right?
Josué:Like, the feeling of you're watching a flag musician, oh, this is like this is special. And towards the end of season three of Ted Lasso, like, the way it ends, immediately after I was like, oh, is there gonna be a season four? And they're like, nope. We're done. That was the end because this was, like, we're not gonna run this into the ground.
Josué:We're not gonna mess it up. Like, this was this was we made something good that we're proud of, and we're we're stopping here. Mhmm. And and it'll be preserved as such. And so I I like our flag means that so much that a part of me is scared of, like you know, like, part of me wants more, but a part of me is, like, can you can you make another season as good?
Josué:You know, like, can you can you keep being? Or is it just I believe they can, but it's, know
Lara:With queer media is that we don't want it to end because there is not enough good queer media out there. And so having something this rich and this, like, welcoming to the queer community, very, like, we don't want it to go because what is there that can fill that void?
Josué:But it doesn't that mean, like, there's just as much pressure. Right? It's like then, like, you don't wanna make a bad third season. Right? Like, you want you want right?
Lara:Thinking Nina and I just finished watching killing Eve. And I am like,
Link:oh, yeah. Sorry.
Lara:Jessica should have told us to finish it, just turn it off thirty seconds before it ended, because it would have been perfect. It would have been perfect. But that that is a thing where, like, oh, this thing is great, and it could go badly. Right? It could suck.
Lara:And like, who doesn't like gay pirates? Gay pirates. It's great. We want more.
Josué:It's very good. Yep.
Lara:There are more pirates that you could add into the show. I'm really glad that they threw in Mary Reed and Anne Bonny.
Link:Yes. Yes. And Archie was great a great addition. Also very funny. That actress has worked with Re Starby.
Link:Like, they're New Zealanders. They all fucking know each other, but they have that line of, like, I don't know if I can trust somebody I've never worked with. And that's like a real elbow moment because they've been in a bunch of stuff together. But, Zheng Yi Cao and Auntie, those were fantastic additions to the cast. I loved having them there.
Link:Also very funny that their ship was called the red flag. Just a just a funny little goof for me to enjoy, I guess. But I loved seeing them and having them join the the team. I liked that Spanish Jackie got to spend more time with everybody. It was it was lovely.
Link:It was a lovely season for adding in more women characters.
Lara:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Josué:I do hope there's there's there's more.
Marc:Yeah. I mean, now now I'm I'm hooked. Like, I need it yesterday.
Josué:Season three?
Marc:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Link, what have you done?
Link:Well, I could introduce you to a little website called archive of our own, and you could read all of the fan fictions there. Wowie. There was okay. I'm really showing my ass here. But, there were so many things after season one that people wrote into fan fictions about what should happen in season two that showed up directly into the show.
Link:It was so rewarding. I I kept joking when I was telling people about it. It's like, it really feels like fan service, but like in the way that I am the fan that is being serviced. Like, it was exactly what I want. They a common thread in fan fiction was that when, Lucius was pushed overboard, he actually snuck back up onto the ship and was hiding in one of the the secret passages that Stede had built into his ship.
Link:And that, like, that was a common thing where he's like, he's he's in the walls. He's there. And I loved that the show was like, yes. And it's not Lucius. It's Izzy.
Link:And I was like, oh my god. I can't believe that they did it. They gave me everything I wanted and more. So good. So funny.
Josué:So good. Alright. We covered a lot. It's good.
Lara:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Josué:We're fans. Good job, crew. Alright. Any any closing thoughts?
Link:If you have a subscription to Max, please go watch our flag means death. It is still currently in the top viewed position. The longer we can keep it up there, the more likely we get a season three.
Josué:You have, like, three weeks to still see it at 4 k at your current pricing.
Marc:Yes. That's right.
Lara:They are changing it.
Josué:The whole thing. Max I could complain about Max for hours.
Lara:And we will. But
Link:No. Not on the show. Yeah. Great show. Highly recommends.
Link:Solve the soundtrack too if you if you just wanna listen to some good tunes.
Josué:Oh, yeah. Someone asked me the other day, like, if I could have any accent, what accent would it be? Like, from, you know, when I speak English. And I said I was like, I don't know why, but
Link:New Zealand.
Josué:Accent has been on my mind lately. I
Link:don't know I don't know what show. It's it's like a sketch comedy thing, but there there is on the Internet, like, a sketch bit where Ree Starvey is talking about, like, I can't help it. New Zealanders have the sexiest accents and people won't leave me alone. Just like, ah, I'm offending.
Lara:It's true. I do. I do love New Zealand accent. Did any of you watch the, like, New Zealand tourism ad at the end of the episodes? Oh my god.
Lara:So great. So great.
Josué:I don't know what this is.
Lara:There was an ad at the end of several of the episodes, and they're like, trying to get Taika Waititi to be in this, like, tourism ad. Like, visit New Zealand. And they're like, what? He's like, just use my body double. It'll be fine.
Lara:My stunt double. It'll be great. So they go through the whole thing shooting all the these epic, like, shots of New Zealand with, like, the back of his head and things like that. So
Josué:That's it.
Lara:It was great.
Josué:Are those on Max? Are those on the
Lara:Yeah. It's at the end of the episode. It's of some of the episodes. Think actually, I think it's at the end of all of the episodes episodes of our FlaggingBeaton's death. Because it's yeah.
Lara:It's he's in costume. Like, he is Blackbeard. Yeah.
Josué:Got it. Cool. Alright. Well, let us know what you think, listeners, of Our Flagging Sath. If you haven't watched it, remedy that.
Josué:Go go watch it. At least watch clips online. It's good stuff. You can tell us what you think and what resonated with you, favorite scenes, opinions about what we said in any of our community spaces, which you can find links to in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining us.
Josué:Remember to kick out and do good. We'll be back next week.
Link:Bye.
Josué:Geek Therapy is a five zero one C three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.
