New Year, New Chapter: Life Transitions Through a Narrative Lens
Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Your Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. I'm one of your hosts. My name is Josué Cardona. I'm joined by Marc Cuiriz.
Josué:Hello. Lara Taylor.
Lara:Hey.
Josué:It's the first episode of the new year. We used to cut these up in seasons. Remember? Like, this would be Mhmm. This would be season one.
Josué:24.
Lara:I don't know.
Josué:Know. I lost count. 10? I don't know.
Marc:Eight.
Josué:I don't think we're eight? Would it just be eight?
Marc:When you started? Oh, well, when you started doing seasons, this would be technically season five.
Josué:Okay. Okay. No. I feel like okay. Okay.
Josué:Maybe. Yeah.
Marc:Five or six.
Josué:We to do seasons. Right? I think I think it just started making sense that end of one year, beginning of a a new year, just like it was an opportunity to make changes and do something a little bit different. And if we're gonna introduce that, it just made sense around the the new year. Take time to integrate that.
Josué:So along those lines, I've I've been thinking me let me get some context about what I've been thinking about lately. So I had a pretty cool job in my my day job. I was working I've been working in health care most of my adult career in one way or another. And a few months ago, I was laid off from my job, from my my day job. And I it was it was really rough at the beginning.
Josué:It's been a few months now. It is and and I still haven't been able to find a new job. And at the beginning, I felt very defeated. Right? Like and, like, everything's falling apart and, like, it felt I think in my mind, the way I was looking at it was as if it was a a challenge that I was overcoming or an obstacle or, like, something that had broken down.
Josué:But then I played Red Dead Redemption two. I'm a few years late, but a friend was playing it and got me hyped. So I went back and I finished it. And the way that that game plays out is that once you're done with the main story, there's six chapters to the game. And when you finish chapter six, the game immediately continues into an epilogue.
Josué:And there's actually two chapters of epilogues in it. And the game Red Dead Redemption two is actually a prequel to Red Dead Redemption one. So in many ways, the pro the epilogue of the game is, like, it does two things. One, sets up the future. Like, it's up to you up to get to Red Dead one.
Josué:But for the most part, it allows you to reflect on everything that happened in the game and touch base with all of those characters. And, like, the status quo is completely different now. And it it it's that bridge. Right? It's like that opportunity to reflect and debrief and then also build towards toward what's coming next.
Josué:Around that same time, I I wanted to watch something that was, I don't know, a little more cheerful and uplifting. So I don't know if you guys heard of this show called Steven Universe. It's very
Lara:Never.
Josué:Never heard the Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty it's pretty great. Had we ever finished our podcast on on the show, on Steven Universe, here comes a thought. I'd I'd plug it.
Josué:But, you know, we got we got, like, halfway through that one. Maybe one day we'll pick it up again.
Marc:We'll see.
Josué:And I love that child. I was like, oh, I need I need some some bright colors. I need some laughter. I need some some fusions. I need you know, this show will make me happy.
Josué:And it did until you get to the end of the show. And and it it's fantastic. It ends in a great way. And then you have Steven Universe Future, which I forgot how heartbreaking and
Lara:It was to have that extra piece.
Josué:And yeah. How that piece is, like, destroys you because it acts as a it is the epilogue to the show. And this epilogue to Steven Universe, this cheerful, bright show that you could think of think of as, like, the a coming of age in a way, right, in a very fantastical way, only in Steven Universe Future do they address that, like, oh, all that stuff that you went through was really traumatic, and you have never taken a moment to process this or talk to anybody about it, and it is catching up with you, and it is prohibiting you from moving on in your life because that was your life, and that's not it anymore, and that stuff messed you up. And so that epilogue does, again, the same thing in a great way where he gets the like, he's literally visiting other like, the people throughout the show that you that you met. And in some cases, he is, I don't know, like, putting the final pieces together in those relationships.
Josué:But for the most part, he's reflecting and learning about himself. And so I've seen this pattern coming up again and again. I was playing a game called Honkai Star Rail, like, from the people who made Genshin Impact. I haven't talked about that game in a while. But, like, you finish this huge story piece, and then after, like, you don't immediately go on to the next to the next story.
Josué:You get this whole like, you get all these tiny missions re like, visiting the other NPCs and the other people who played a role in it. Kind of you're saying goodbye. You're gonna see where people left off. And just giving that piece to, again, reflect and think about what just happened is so so important. And in in in geek therapy, we we talk about that so much.
Josué:Right? Like, oh, like, let's talk about for example, especially when we talk about the tabletop role playing games. Right? Like, how great it is to have that moment after the game to reflect on what happened. And so much of what we I mean, even what we do on this show, like, we're reflecting we're taking the time here to reflect on the experiences that we had watching TV shows and movies, playing video games, having these gameplay experiences with our friends or alone.
Josué:So I started looking at my own situation, not as, like, this failure or this part in the middle of the story where it was, like, everything sucked. I started looking at it as, oh, maybe that previous chapter is over. And now I'm in the epilogue period where I can reflect, look back, and then in a way prepare for whatever is coming next. That's where my mind is at. But thoughts on this this concept?
Lara:I mean, I think it makes sense. Our brains want linear stories and life doesn't necessarily go the same way that a story would. And so finding those ways to go and reflect. My brain, when you brought up this topic, tried to come up with any example. And I'm sure as we talk, I will come up with more.
Lara:But I do know that, like, there are many examples of epilogues and games where you go and talk to everybody who you've interacted with and kind of wrap up the story. And then somebody goes off for a new adventure and then we get the sequel. I think that it happens in God of War in the newer ones. That's one example I can think of. But there's a few there's a few other ones.
Lara:I think Horizon Forbidden or Horizon Zero Dawn did it, then we got Horizon Forbidden West.
Josué:And, like, books literally have, like, epilogue. Right? Like, a chapter title Epilogue. Epilogue. Right?
Josué:Like, it is a concept. What do you think of it as a as a, like, a metaphor for lived experience.
Lara:I mean, that it makes sense. Right? Like, if we look at our lives like we would a story, there are times where we shift from one part to the other. And like you said in yours, like, you're leaving behind, I don't know, universe. Right?
Lara:And then moving into universe future. Right? Like, that kind of thing. And being able to stop and reflect on what happened and move on to the next part. Unless there's a huge tragedy in a story, you usually get some kind of like, there's going to be a future.
Lara:Something new is going to happen. Maybe something exciting, maybe something not exciting. But that's why we want to see what happens and why we are sad to say goodbye to stories. We talked about that a million times on this show. Having this idea that like, well, that's one part of your life.
Lara:That's like chapter one or chapter one through 40. And then now you're at the epilogue and then we're ready for the next book, you know, I think that's a good way of looking at things, that it's not the end of the story and there's a chance for some change in the future.
Josué:Mark?
Marc:I think I was kind of in the same boat as Lara where you when you first brought up this topic or and, you know, said that you wanted to talk about this, I was immediately trying to rack my brain of like, oh, god, like, what what stories do I know? What things have I can, like, taken in that have epilogues? And my mind was really drawing of, like, aside from, like, the typical, like, video game stuff, like, like, I know for most assassin's crew games, like, they have, like, a short little epilogue at the end of them, where you can kinda interact with some of the characters, but then it just kinda, you know, continues on from there. But I know that as Laura was talking, I I started remembering that in actually, in in some of the Pokemon games like Omega Ruby, like, I'm replaying it right now. And I remember that, like, that's so as I know it's a remake of, like, Ruby and Sapphire, it actually does have an epilogue.
Marc:Like, it has stuff to do after you've completed the main game. And normally, when the game would just end and then you can just kinda run around and do whatever you want, like, this actually has, like, an epilogue story of, like, okay. Like, here's some extra stuff to do.
Josué:That's the one with our whole region opens up afterwards. Right?
Marc:I believe so. Or, like, the app well, the epilogue story itself goes into getting Rayquaza and then fighting Deoxys and getting Deoxys. So it's like a way to kind of explain how you can get those, like, two Pokemon and how you can get a mega evolution Rayquaza. But I know, like like Laura was saying, like, epilogues and and all these things are are designed to kind of I think in in some sense, they're for us to kind of get some sort of, like, satisfactory conclusion or get a sense of closure from them, Especially for some for some stories where you are, like, going through all these events and going through all these things with the main character, it's natural that we're like, well, how does it end? Like, yes, here's the end of the book, but, like, I wanna know, like, do they does everything turn out okay in
Josué:the end?
Marc:Like, with Harry Potter, for instance, like, the seventeen years later and everyone has kids now and and they're all grown up. Or, like, with assassins, like, I mentioned earlier with assassin's creed, like, they actually created a short animated film that's like an epilogue to Ezio and, like, seeing the end of him and and seeing him get, like, the final conclusion for, you know, his life and everything like that. And in life, like, we don't always get that. And I think that's what can be the hardest part is, you know, we we wanna try and get the closure. We wanna get a satisfactory conclusion or an ending to certain parts of our lives, and we're not always given that.
Marc:And so it's really hard to kind of shift the focus sometimes because if we feel like, well, like, I haven't figured this part out yet, or I haven't been able to do this thing yet that I've I wanted to do at by a certain age or by a certain time. Moving on to the next chapter in life because that's just how things are going and how life is unfolding can sometimes be kind of difficult, which is why Jose for you, like, you said, like, you were kind of struggling with kind of seeing those types of things, that makes sense to me. Like, I can see that because it it doesn't feel like it's an ending just quite yet. But in this case, like, reframing it and saying, like, well, no. This is more of, a continuation and moving on to the next part.
Marc:I think that's I think that's kind of like a more positive spin to it. And I wouldn't necessarily consider it then an epilogue because it's still a continuation of the story, so to speak.
Josué:I'll I'll I'll
Marc:Yeah. That's just kinda met their thoughts.
Josué:I'll tell you where where the epilogue piece was helpful for me is that it puts like, you mentioned closure. Like, it adds a, like, finality to what happened before. Right? Because I think it's like I don't know. It's like if you're in a, you know, like, in a romantic relationship and you break up and you're like, oh, but maybe we'll get back together and stuff.
Josué:Right? It's like you're not completely done with it. You're kinda stuck. And in a way, it it has felt like like I've been I've been in this type of career for the past, I don't know, let's say eight years or something like that. After a few months, it's been like right?
Josué:It's like at the beginning, I was like, that's no problem. I'm just going to find another job doing something similar. This is just a hiccup. This is not gonna be this is not that big of a of a deal. But over time, it was like, oh, I don't know.
Josué:I don't know if I wanna go back to do that. I don't know I don't know if this is this is what I want the next chapter to be. I kind of like, is that chapter over? And the idea that that that book, that season, right, is is complete, made it easier to be in this space now where it feels like, okay. Like like the you know, there are some movies that end in a cliffhanger.
Josué:Right? And I think this didn't feel like this felt like a cliffhanger at the beginning. But then I was like, oh, wait a minute. That wasn't a cliffhanger. That was that was the end.
Josué:I get that, like, that happened. The next chapter is very, very different. And when I mean next chapter, it's like, it does feel like it'll be a next book. Like, in my case Mhmm. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna end up moving from where I'm living now again.
Josué:Right? Like, throughout my life, that's something that's very that's been very common. Like, I've moved often. And when I moved here, I kind of I was hoping that I wouldn't be moving around as much. Like, I've moved every about every three years since I was 14, maybe, and I'm 40 now.
Josué:I've been living in Chicago for four years, and it's the longest I've ever lived anywhere since I was since I was 14. So it it did very much feel at the beginning, like, oh, you know, this is, like, this is where I'm at. This is I'm just gonna continue this story. But now I'm like, maybe I don't I don't if I don't, if this story doesn't continue, I feel like that's okay because because there's another book that's going to like, there's a whole other story that's gonna start. And and, again, like, that framing of it just made it so much more it made it very positive in my mind.
Josué:Like, if it were yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I felt I felt like I was just at the beginning, it felt like I was in a Dark Souls game, and I couldn't beat the boss.
Josué:Right? And then I switched that to, like, oh, no. Like, I I did I did beat the boss. And, you know, like, now now it's time to play something different. Does that change anything or explain anything differently from from what you were thinking?
Marc:No. I I I get what you're saying. I I I can understand where you're coming from and shifting that focus from from it being more of like the ending of a book and having it be like on a cliffhanger with the with like that kind of like thought process of like, no, there's there's going to be like a follow-up. There's going to be a continuation to it. And then and then the sense, I think like the epilogue is more so just like it just kinda adds to the finality of that particular
Josué:chapter or the was like acceptance of like, oh, shit. Mhmm. That was the end of the book. Damn. Yeah.
Josué:That was it. I didn't I didn't realize it. Mhmm. Yeah.
Marc:Yeah. Or it's like like with those a lot of like shows and stuff where it's like you're watching it and, you know, it doesn't get renewed or doesn't get picked up and it ends on a cliffhanger with the expectation that it's gonna continue. And then you're like, oh, well, alright. Shit. I guess that's it.
Marc:It's over. It's done with and then, like, kinda adds to that finality of it. Like, okay. Yeah. It's done.
Marc:Like, this is the end of the story.
Josué:Because, like, a lot of things in life have very clear beginnings and endings. The beginning of the school year, the end of the school year, you start high school, you end high school. Right? If you're going to college, right, there's college, you're graduating college. Like, there's a clear okay.
Josué:Now we're going now there's gonna be something else. Right? And there may even be that period in between where you're reflecting on it. Like, think, Lara, you said at the beginning, right, like, that isn't always clear in life. Right?
Josué:Like, many times
Lara:I I talk about that with clients all the time. Yeah.
Josué:Like I wanna hear.
Lara:The way we're kids, like, it doesn't as we get become adults through college, maybe even a first job, like, there's, like, this structure and we move from one step to the next. And then it gets all wishy washy and, like, fuzzy and you don't know what to do and you don't know where your your chapters are, especially if you don't live the, Okay, next I find a partner, I get married, I buy a house, I have kids. Like, those are the standard markers that society's had for a while. And now a lot of people feel I don't know what that where the end of one thing is and where the next begins. And I really like the example of books that you brought up, Josue, because in a series of books, right now I'm reading the Locked Tomb series and there's four books and there's an epilogue at the end of each book, but it still moves the story forward.
Lara:So that section, that story is done and there's a very clear ending. Sometimes there's a cliffhanger, but it still could kind of be an ending and then a start to So a new I do like the idea of looking at books in their epilogues because it's not necessarily the end.
Josué:It's funny. You read physical books. Correct? Most of the time. Right?
Lara:Most of time. Yeah.
Josué:Are you too much?
Marc:Yeah. I'm I'm kinda 50 k.
Josué:So so with the physical book, like like, you can feel the ending physically. Right? Like, you see how many pages are are left over. So you know you're getting to the end of the book. If you're in the epilogue, know that it's only about this long.
Josué:If you're reading digital or listening to an audiobook, I mean, you can still see it. Like, it tells you a percentage. Right? It's like, hey, you're you're you're 85% done with the book. Like, you know you know you're you're nearing the end.
Lara:When I read a digital book, it'll even tell me this many pages in the next chapter. Exactly.
Josué:In an audiobook, it's like, hey. You've got an hour left. It's like, oh, man. We're getting close to the end. When I was playing Red Dead Redemption, that epilogue went on forever.
Josué:Like, I had no idea how much content was in the epilogue. Also, there's a second epilogue. It's like epilogue one and epilogue two. Right? So there's there's so long, but there was something about that that made it that made it relatable of, like, I have no idea how much longer this is gonna go.
Josué:And I had a similar experience with no. Go ahead, Lar. What?
Lara:I was just gonna say kinda like Lord of the Rings Return of the King, the movie. Like, there's, like, five epilogues, and you there's, like True. True. Yeah. That that's the ending.
Lara:Nope. Nope.
Marc:I know.
Lara:There's another end and then another end and another one.
Josué:Yeah. So yeah. With with Steven Universe Future, I had an interesting experience where I I thought it was 10 episodes. So when I was getting to the tenth episode, I was like, oh, we're almost there. I know it's 20 episodes.
Josué:So even so even there, it caught me by surprise where I I wasn't sure exactly how long that epilogue was, and I got to go through all of these different things. And that piece of, like, not knowing how long the epilogue is or how many steps it has has also been relatable. Because the epilogue doesn't have like, epilogues are usually one chapter with the exception of, you know, Lord of the Rings and the five different epilogues. But it but it is, like, you do see the different characters kind of each get their own their own final moment. But there I don't know for sure that there's, like, a a formula or a structure that you would expect from an epilogue.
Josué:They can be short or they can be really long. They can be immediately after the fact or they can be a seventeen year time jump. Right? Like, it can be so many different things. So it there's also, like, this surprising aspect of it.
Josué:I'm like, I have no idea what this is going to be like. But but, again, in my case, it feels familiar because I've I've had these moments before where everything changed, and I didn't expect it. And it isn't until you accept that you already read that last chapter. You're in the epilogue, and now you're going, you know, into something different. And you may not know what that is.
Josué:Like, when you're at the end of a season, you don't know what's in the next season. At the end of the book, you don't know what's coming in the next book, next movie.
Lara:You don't know if they're gonna do a time jump at the end
Josué:of the season. You don't if they're gonna recast
Lara:some of characters.
Josué:You don't know you don't know nothing.
Lara:Going a whole different direction yeah. Than Mhmm.
Josué:Uh-huh. Yeah. So I've been I've been thinking about, like, how how with clients that could be, like, different different ways of framing it. Like like you said, like, you explained that, like, life doesn't have that structure always. And I think, obviously, like, even if you have your different grades and your different kind of stages of education and even career, there's still the other ones that you don't that don't align with that.
Josué:Your friendships, your romantic relationships, your Mhmm. Whatever else that that you may have going on. They don't they don't follow a trajectory. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. So I'm gonna
Marc:yeah. Yeah. I was I was kinda thinking a little bit. I know, Laura, you you were kinda talking about how, like, some of your clients are kind of talking like about these sorts of things. And I even now, like, as you guys are talking and, Jose, as you were talking, was like, that is a very interesting way to put it in terms of like like, I've got a couple of clients who kinda struggle with letting go of past the past and either their past actions or things that have happened to them and things that have occurred.
Marc:And I think of it like, I think if I like, this is a really cool way of, like, me wanting to try to introduce the topic. Like, try to introduce this idea of, hey. Like, yes, all that stuff happened and, like, that's not like, you know, that's it. And also that part of that book is done, that chapter is over. How can we get to the epilogue?
Marc:How can we reach to this point where it's good enough where you're like, okay, like, that's it. It's done and over with. And now I'm I'm in this next chapter, or I'm I need to end
Josué:the epilogue.
Marc:This next book. Yeah. Mhmm. It's like, hey. Surprise.
Marc:Like, you've been in this epilogue, and it's been dragging on for, you know, five different epilogues. Let's it's it's time to move on. It's time to to start the next season, time to start the next book, next chapter, whichever way they wanna prefer.
Josué:If you were reading a book and you somehow missed the fact that you were in the epilogue, it would probably feel kinda weird. Right? Like, there's something about accepting the fact that this is right? Like, accepting the the ending of the story and then seeing where you're at now as the epilogue makes a like, I think that's meaningful. Mhmm.
Josué:Let us know how that goes with with clients. Because I yeah. I keep thinking how how that could be a helpful reframe. I'm I'm watching one of one of the top anime of 2023. It's called Free Run After Journey's End, and it does something that is so so cool.
Josué:It it starts it literally begins with a group of adventurers returning from this this huge quest. So imagine that the imagine if Lord of the Rings started with Frodo returning from from the end of the the story. Right? It's like, that's where this story begins. And it really is the story of this this character.
Josué:She's an elf and how she is like, she sees the people that she was on on the the adventure with. She gets to say goodbye to them, and she's seeing them die one by one because she doesn't age the same way. And it is her life after this amazing adventure. And as she is moving forward with her life, she is reflecting on like, she's visiting these characters, and she is reflecting and remembering the experiences that they had. And you see flashbacks to that amazing adventure that they had, to that grand quest, and the things that she learned from it and how they're being applied now.
Josué:So you can see why I've got all this on my mind. Like, I I, like, I was I've been bombarded by by this theme, and it it really resonated with me. And that show is amazing, but and and the way that it's telling that story is really cool. Because they could have done it the other way. They could have done the typical, this is the great adventure that these these people are going on, but it's all about the after of that.
Josué:And it's not the aftermath of the world. It's the aftermath for her in particular, which I think is is really cool. And, again, it's in the title. It's free run after journey's end.
Lara:That reminds me a little bit of I talked about this game a while back, Littlewood, where the you're the hero, and it's the little, like Mhmm. It's like Stardew where you're building your town. You're, like, building building making relationships with these people, and some of them are your friends from before. And you did the big quest. You fought the big thing, and you have no memory of it.
Lara:And you're in this town building things, and everybody's trying to remind you of the things. I never got far enough to see if it's a little bit like like getting flashes of what happened and reminders of what happened. But it's that idea that a story, like, our life story can be told from any, like, in any section. Right? Like, it's the idea of people talk about memoir versus, like, autobiography.
Lara:And an autobiography usually covers, like, an entire lifespan up until the point of the person writing. But a memoir is just like a moment in time, a piece of the journey. And so someone telling like me telling my story of when I was in high school is going to be very different and could look very tragic compared to like life right now. And so defining where our stories start and end. Nina's preparing to teach a class and is going to look at like what a story looks like based on where it starts and ends can be completely different.
Lara:And I think that's a really cool idea with the ideas of where epilogues begin and end and things like that too.
Josué:Yeah. So I'm gonna shift this a little bit because there's the epilogue, but there's also prologues. Right? And prologues.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:Mhmm. You could you could be thing. Right? So so Red Dead two, the epilogues are also prologues. Because since Red Dead two is a prequel, you're literally setting everything up at the end of the game to get you to where you're gonna be in Red Dead one.
Lara:It's like Rogue One and
Josué:Exactly. Exactly.
Lara:Star Wars a new world.
Josué:Like, that's that is a prologue story. Right? Like, like, that we know where it's gonna end. We know the the consequences and everything, but we're we're telling a cool story there. But there's there's nothing before Yeah.
Josué:Like, right? There's no there's nothing well, technically, Endor is before that now. Right? But, yes, Rogue One is an is Mhmm.
Lara:Yeah. Well, now that's the In a way, least for it. Yeah. Mhmm. But it's also an epilogue.
Lara:It's also an epilogue to to episode three. Right? Revenge of the Sith. And I feel I feel
Josué:like that's a that's
Lara:a A little bit.
Josué:A little more into the look. Because, like, Andor is Andor's story. Right? Like like so it's just, like, it's him. Right.
Josué:His story is kind of is pretty removed from, like, the end of episode three, and it's also, like it's obviously connected to Rogue One. Right? Let's do it.
Lara:Do it. I'm gonna throw another wrench in there because sometimes when I read books, the epilogue of the prologue has nothing to do with the
Josué:characters in the main story. Yeah. And and many times, like, they're yeah. Just not They're they're not related. They're they're kind of setting something up in the world, but sometimes Mhmm.
Josué:They are related. So I've been watching another anime called Vinland Saga. Right? And
Marc:very good thing. And I
Josué:was, like, looking at list of top anime in 2023. Was like, let me check some of this out. Vinland Saga season two was up there. It was, like, number one on a few different lists that I found. So I was like, okay.
Josué:Let me let me watch this. I never watched season one. So I watched season one, and I just I just finished it yesterday or the day before. And I did not expect this. Like, I had nothing to do with this episode.
Josué:It is a 24 episode season. Like, both seasons are 24 episodes. The first step the first season, 24 episodes. The title of the last episode of the first season of Vinland Saga is called end of the prologue. I had no idea that it was a 24 episode.
Josué:Right? Like, they're they're seeing it as, like, this is we're just setting things up. Like, this isn't even the story. Like, you thought this was this is nothing. Mhmm.
Josué:This is just we're just we're just moving the pieces. We're just putting them where you need where you need to put them. And I I I think that could be viewed in a few different ways. Right? Like, it might resonate with people in a few different ways.
Josué:One being everything before now, you know, was like a prologue to what's coming next. Right? Like, you can learn from it, like, like, this is how the pieces moved and shifted and got you to where you're go now for this next piece of the story. Or you can see it in a more isolated, like, period. So, like like, the way I'm seeing if I were to I I still feel good about this epilogue piece, but I may be shifting into a prologue as well.
Josué:I'm not sure. Right? But there is this I I think it might serve me well in different in different ways to look at it, you know, one way or the other. But I feel like it's possible that I may be entering a prologue that is a lot like a game like Metroid or a game like any game in a series where you level up a lot, and then in the next iteration, you lose all of your abilities in the first at the beginning of the game where you kinda get reset. Give me some examples of those because there's a bunch of them.
Josué:Metroid is the first one that came to mind. Assassin's Creed. Assassin's Assassin's Creed you're playing. Well, no. It's true.
Josué:Even when you play as Ezio. Right? Like, at the beginning, you always you always reset.
Lara:Yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:What happens? Like, do someone take does someone take your blades? Do they break?
Marc:So so when you go from two to brotherhood, the the beginning part of brotherhood is a prologue, sets you up for the events of the main game. And what happens is that, Monterigioni is attacked and a cannonball goes to the room, destroys the armor. So all you have is your blade and the sword, but you have no armor. And then Yeah. You have to build yourself back up.
Marc:And then in Revelations, he goes to Masayaf. He gets attacked by Templars. And I I don't know. There's some weird thing that he it looks like he sees Altair. He gets he gets bested, so they strip him of all of his stuff.
Marc:And then he has to go through the castle, retrieve his stuff, but like he has no armor. So then he gets to Constantinople to build himself back up. There's also Assassin's Creed three with Haytham. Like, does the prologue for that before it goes into Connor because it's like Oh, right. Yeah.
Marc:Like, just the prologue. We're just get everything all set up so you can get connected to Haytham before you find out he's a total asshole.
Josué:Oh, I forgot that. Yeah.
Marc:Even even rogue itself, the Assassin's Creed rogue is an entire prologue to three. And then it has its own epilogue that's a prologue to unity. Like, I'm like, I'm telling you, it's all it's Assassin's Creed is the perfect perfect example for all of us.
Josué:There is there is something I hate that in games. Like, I hate it in games when you lose all your stuff. Like, I've always seen it again, there's there's a part of me that loves the power fantasy piece of starting Metroid Prime or any of the Metroid games with all of your powers just so you can get a taste of it. Right? And then and then you know, like, oh, I'm gonna work towards that because that's what I want.
Josué:Like, I've had a taste of it. Yeah. I want I want that again. I'm gonna play to get those part. But it also bugs me where I'm like, oh, I just lost everything.
Josué:Like, I like, this sucks now. Like, it's so hard. It's so boring. I can't go anywhere. And then in games that are a series, that really bugs me where everything gets reset.
Josué:Like, in RPGs when I think I think did you finish Final Fantasy remake, Lara? So when Rebirth comes out next month, around two months, zero Are they gonna start off as there there's, like, nothing. There's no
Lara:See that. See that. That's that's shady. That's shady.
Marc:It's one story.
Josué:It's story. Game.
Lara:It was one game. One story, one game, and you're breaking it up, and now you're gonna take away my power.
Josué:No material. Sorry.
Lara:It's interesting because when you look at no materia, I feel like and that's hard because in the original game, some of the materia like, you built up a collection of some really good materia over the course of a whole game, and sometimes
Josué:Yeah. I know.
Lara:Yeah. Anyway but the the original God of War games, they did that. In God of War two, I think it is, you start with all your powers, and literally, you're I playing through a link
Josué:trick
Lara:from you, piece by piece by piece. But then, I don't we didn't really talk about God of War Ragnarok as a as a whole when the game came out, but I think they learned from that in making the games the newer set of games, the Norse mythology games. Because with Ragnarok,
Josué:you
Lara:It's keep all your a little less it's not enough, and it's not quite as overpowered. Right? Like, it it hits a little less, but you still have all your power.
Josué:Exactly.
Lara:And then you build more and more and more and more, and you never feel like it feels like a straight continuation of the first game Yeah.
Josué:Which was really nice. Really like it when games do that too. And it it has that. Right? Like, you don't lose your weapons, the weapons that you gained.
Josué:Everything is there in in general. Right? And then you're just building off of that narratively.
Lara:You just have to power those weapons up or get a new weapon to attach to it.
Josué:I thought that it did that really well. Like and and I just I just finished playing Ragnarok as well, and that that is an example of damn. That's a good actually, in the next episode, I wanna talk about Valhalla in particular. I think it's a whole topic. Okay.
Josué:But these games it's so funny because the original God of War games, there's one, two, three, and there's a couple spin offs as well, like, side stories that are all important. So, technically, it's, like, five games, I believe, that really tell the story of of Kratos and Greece. And only Mhmm. Now, right, in, like, 2018 to 2023, '20 I mean, we're in '24. Right?
Josué:But, like, during that time when the games when the newer games came out, would you ever even consider like, it it is such a different chapter. Right? And Mhmm. And you could see all of those previous five games as the setup for why he ends up where he is at the beginning of God of War 2018. But you only think that when you get to that game.
Josué:Right? Like, you would have never as you're playing through the originals, you never think all of the the purpose of this is to get me, you know, to live in in in in the Norse, you know, in the in the nine realms later.
Lara:Yeah.
Josué:So there is there is something about the the living it, the going through it that also changes your perspective on it because there's a I think there's a big difference. And maybe maybe I'm kinda figuring this out as well. This week is my therapy. There's there's this that change in perspective of, like, I'm on this journey, and it is it's not working out right now. Like, I've you know, like, I lost my save file or something.
Josué:Right? Or, like, things are going badly versus, oh, no. This is just the beginning of the next game. I got depowered or or, you know, I lost progress, but, like, that's just part of the transition. Or looking back that you know, I think sometimes people will say, you know, everything you've done up to now is preparing you for this moment.
Josué:There are moments when that hearing that can be helpful. There are moments when hearing that will just completely piss you off and is not helpful whatsoever. Kinda depends what what mindset you're in. And now I don't know that I'm thinking so much like, everything I've done before has prepared me for where I am now. I don't think I don't think okay.
Josué:So so, like, what was it? Assassin's Creed three. Right? Like, you're playing the beginning as one character, and then any pro like, that character is done and you start playing as another character. And, really, what you gain from there is like, oh, now I know how to play the game.
Josué:Like, you don't have another tutorial with Connor afterwards because you already had that before. Right? So it's really, like, for the player to gain that experience and kinda warm up to it, and now you're ready to to get started. I think that that kind of example makes sense with that. Like, Oh, no, no, no.
Josué:It makes sense. I've got all these skills transfer, and I'll use them doing something else. But other times, it doesn't it doesn't feel that way. It doesn't feel like, oh, I learned something. That's great.
Josué:But, like, where where's my loot? Where's my armor upgrades? Where's all the stuff that I had before? It is yeah. Life can be harder that way.
Josué:But if I'm in the prologue that I'm just setting things up for the next piece, which is which is kind of where I find myself now, which is even even where the epilogue can be, like, a chance to reflect and accept that the story is over, it can still be a little what's the word? Like, you'd still be a little sad. Right? Because even even the seventeen year time jump, like, whatever you're like, shit. This is the end.
Josué:Like, this series that I've loved for so long or this book that I enjoyed so long, there's still, like, this this sadness to it because you're like, oh, it's over. But a prologue, it's like, oh, we're starting something new. We're setting things up. Right? Like like, as as sad as Rogue One can be at the end, it's like, no.
Josué:It's a good it's an exciting run, and, like, we there's purpose to it. I'm like, we we know like, it's the we know where we're going next, and there's something really exciting about that. And and I do like the way games do this, but the way also like, Red Dead, again, like, that piece, like, sure, are two epilogues, but in a way, you start moving into that prologue territory where, like, oh, I'm building out everything that I see in the next game. So I know how I'm how I'm setting up to go there. And so seeing it as a prologue, I feel like, oh, I'm I'm gearing up for the next stage in the adventure.
Josué:But, again, nothing has really changed in my situation. It's still the same. But that change in perspective
Lara:It's just your perspective.
Josué:Of, oh, what's gonna happen next? What doors are available to me? What gear should I bring with me? What should I what should I get rid of? It feels that's way better feeling and much more optimistic and hopeful once you get into that prologue stage.
Josué:Do you have any favorite epilogues or prologues in stories or games that you haven't mentioned yet?
Lara:It there's so
Josué:many I just wanna mention that both of you throughout this entire hour have been, like, synchronized in your facial expressions, even, like, where you're facing, where you're looking. It's been it's been amazing to see you guys become the same person.
Marc:Yeah. Oh, we've all been the same person.
Lara:Mhmm. I'm seeing like almost the same pair of glasses across the screen right now.
Josué:This is true. This is true.
Marc:Give me some time mine will become more rectangular. Interp I wouldn't necessarily say it's a favorite, but it's one that I thought of before we shifted gears into the talking about prologues. But something that came to mind in terms of, like, an epilogue and having, like, those flashbacks of, like, thinking about, like, the journey that got you to where you're at in the present moment of when the story began was the Titanic, where, like, the the beginning and even in, like, once it gets caught up to the present day, like, that's that's the epilogue. Like, that's the ending of the story. We started at the ending, and then we had all these flashbacks that told the story and everything, the journey and everything that happened.
Marc:And then it once it gets caught up, then you kind of end the epilogue of, like, alright, like, dropping the the heart of the ocean, and there you go.
Josué:For people who haven't seen one of the most popular movies of all time I had to I to refresh my memory. You're you're pointing out that when the movie starts, we're already we're seeing Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah.
Marc:Where it's start of the
Josué:apple person is old and is remembering. Like, the whole movie is her remembering her experience on the Titanic, and then that's the that's the core of the movie. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Josué:Mhmm. Yeah.
Marc:That was an
Lara:excellent movie in theater.
Josué:What a time to be alive. What a time.
Lara:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Marc:I remember watching it for the first time in Mexico.
Josué:You couldn't you couldn't wait. You had to see it. You had to see it.
Marc:In English.
Josué:Didn't matter. Yeah.
Marc:Yeah. Yeah. Like, six years old. I was watching that.
Lara:That's a very long movie for a six year old.
Marc:It was. Was very
Josué:in theaters. The same movie could be in theaters for a year, year and a half. That movie was in theaters. It's crazy.
Lara:Side tangent. I took Nina to see that movie in three d when it came out for I can't remember what anniversary it was. And then put her on a ferry in the middle of the storm in the San Francisco Bay.
Josué:By the prologue to the ferry. Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Josué:Interesting.
Lara:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's interesting.
Lara:Prologues well, maybe not prologues, but epilogues are a common thing that we do when we're playing games with CAS gamers. Doing games. We play an arc out and then Or we play the whole game because sometimes we're not doing a thing we're gonna come back to. And at the end we kind of decide, Okay, what are our characters doing in six months? Or what are they doing in the future if it's we're just completely ending something?
Lara:And sometimes our epilogues are intertwined with each other and sometimes they're not. It's a really interesting way to wrap things up and kind of get some closure on something. And those characters, if we don't come back to them, we still know they have a story past what we actually played. So they're going off into the future. But I really enjoy what some of us come up with for
Josué:What is the what would you say the purpose of the epilogues are when you do these? To
Lara:kind of, again, decide when like, give the player a chance to decide when and when when and where the story ends and how it ends. Right? Like, is it a tragedy? Is it a triumph? Is it like, do these people end up in a relationship together for the long term?
Lara:Do they keep doing the thing they've been doing and studying the thing they've been studying? Do they reunite with their family? We get to kind of set the stage and each person, each player kind of gets the opportunity to do that for themselves and come up with, like, what their character would be doing and work with others if it's kind of intertwined. But it gives some, like, agency and control over a story that may or may not have that depending on how the game is run and by who. You know?
Josué:I'll wrap up with two two two more examples. You talked about God of War, Ragnarok, and I just finished it, so it's very recent, fresh in my mind. And when you finish that game, you roll credits, and it kind of sets things up. Right? Like, people go on their way and stuff, but then it it opens up the world for you and it gives you a whole bunch of new tasks to do, including one where, like, you attend a funeral.
Josué:And if you attend that funeral, that's like that actual like, that's more of an ending. It's like a second ending, and it rolls credits, and it plays a song by Hosier, and, like, it's a whole thing. Right? It's like, oh, shit. It has a second ending, but then it still has all these other Yep.
Josué:Like, there's so much information for you to and a lot of that reflection piece. Right? Like, it's not set up as an epilogue, but if you choose to continue playing the game, you do get that closure. You do get to to reflect on the things that happened. And in some ways, you even get to fix some things that broke along the way.
Josué:So, again, lots of closure that you can get from a game like that. And then the other one I wanted to mention, and I can't speak much to it, and I was hoping that Link would have been here to talk about it. But Baldur's Gate three came out last year. And a few months after the game came out so I think the game came out in in August. Then November, they released a patch.
Josué:I think it was, like, 25 gigabytes. It was, like it was huge, but it it added a whole bunch of fixes. But the biggest piece of content was that it added an epilogue. And my understanding is that it because it has so many playable characters and so many different things that can happen, it they added this epilogue so that you could go and talk to all of these different characters. And, again, reflect on your choices in the game and what happened in that experience.
Josué:That epilogue has three thirty 3,500 additional lines of dialogue that weren't in the original game just so you could have that experience. Like right? Like, the game doesn't really continue after that. I don't know that the if the world is open. I I doubt it, but it gives you that opportunity to reflect and talk to everybody in the game.
Josué:I think that's really cool that they were able to to do that. And those are those are the examples that we have. I think I think we've we've like, you've both said that with clients, you either have conversations about, you know, like, the structure of where you are in your story, that it might be useful to talk about it in that context. I hope this this has been helpful to kinda think about it in that way. My experience in particular, the way it's it's kinda played out.
Josué:Once I started looking at it as an epilogue and now possibly a prologue, it it really it has changed from feeling stuck in the middle of something to feeling like I'm I'm past the the end or before the beginning. And that's that can be a spot that is that can be kinda scary, but especially if you don't know that you're in it. But if you are if you think if you think that you're in it, you can it kinda gives you a better game plan of what to do and you don't feel as stuck. So please share your your thoughts on this in any of our community spaces. There are links to in the show notes.
Josué:Let us know what your favorite epilogues and prologues are. Do you like any of the examples that that that we provided? For more geek therapy, visit geektherapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good, and we'll be back next week. Bye.
Josué:Thank you, Mark. Geek Therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.
