I Saw The TV Glow
Welcome to GT Radio on the EcTherapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cordona. I am joined by Lara Taylor.
Lara:Hey.
Josué:Marc Cuiriz. Yo. And Link Keller.
Link:What's up?
Josué:Alright. Today, we're going to discuss the movie, I saw the TV glow. So full spoilers for this one. We're gonna go we're gonna go deep. I think it's it's definitely worth discussing.
Josué:And Link, guide us through this conversation, would you? Why why why is this movie worth talking about?
Link:Well, I saw this movie in July, and I thought it was beautiful and existentially terrifying. And I thought it would be really fun to talk about with you guys. I did not come very well prepared with, like, a path to go through here. I did rewatch it again yesterday, to keep it fresh in my mind, but it does it it feels hard to be very structured about this film, for me because it's so emotional. So it's hard to be like, well,
Josué:we're
Link:here's section a and then subgroup one. No. It's it's we're gonna we're gonna go with the flow and see where it takes us.
Josué:Go emotion by emotion I than than in order.
Link:So That's a good flow. Emotional flow. Flow. So everybody watched this movie. Right?
Link:Everybody seen it?
Josué:Yes.
Link:Yay. Exciting. Exciting. Let's, let's, I guess, just start off with taking like, just a general temperature check. I really truly love this movie.
Link:I continued to think about it several days after watching it. And then rewatching it again was really rewarding for me because I was able to catch lots of details that I missed the first time. So I'm, I'm I'm real hot on this one. What
Lara:about
Link:you guys? How how did you feel just basic gut reactions to watching this movie? Lara.
Lara:Wow. Okay. I really enjoyed it. It hit me in the nineties nostalgia feels very much so. I was like, it me, except before it was me because I wasn't out till the February, really.
Lara:And as I went into it, I was like, I know this is a queer movie. I'm like, who is queer? And the answer was like, oh, yeah. Fucking everybody. That's that's who's queer.
Lara:I loved it. I loved it. It fucked with my head. Lots of feelings. Lots of things that we will talk about the whole time.
Lara:But I wanna hear what the other two originally thought about this movie because they just watched it.
Marc:So I remember when when you originally brought up this movie, I had my hesitancies simply just because of the fact that the movie is considered a horror film. And me big baby when it comes to scary films, me me no likey. However, hearing you guys kind of talk about it and and kind of let letting me know, like, this is kind of what to expect with it. I was like, okay. I'll give it a shot.
Marc:I'll I'll watch it. And, you know, if it does happen to be too spooky, I'll I'll try to skip through it. But it wasn't like that. So I was able to watch through the whole film. And quite honestly, once the movie was done, I kinda said to myself in in the room, what the fuck did I just watch?
Marc:I was was thrown for a loop, and I was like, listen. I've watched I've watched Interstellar. I've seen Inception. Like, I thought I'd be able to handle this, but I like I was I still walked away from this movie, like, completely mind fucked. I was like, what what on earth?
Marc:But, you know, I I ran to the Internet like every person does and kinda read a little bit of things and and kinda confirmed some things that I was thinking about, like, just based on what other people were saying. I was like, okay. But overall, like, I I really enjoyed this movie. Like, I thought it was really great. And, I know you were talking about, like, existentialism.
Marc:It's got all those little juicy bits in there that I was like, yes. This is this is it. This is what I'm gonna be bringing to the table. So, yeah, I I'm I'm pretty up there. It was a good movie.
Marc:I liked it.
Josué:I I saw a trailer for the film in theaters months ago. And since I saw that trailer, I started telling people like, we should go see it. Like, this looks really good. I don't want it's about. But I really like, like, the vibes of the trailer.
Josué:So I unfortunately went in with really high expectations. So I was like, super excited to watch the movie. And finally, I sat down, and I watched it. And I was so into it that I like, I kept going back. I was like, wait a minute.
Josué:This is a reference. Like, they mentioned something like this before. Like, wait a minute. Didn't this season five? Wait a minute.
Josué:They mentioned season six before. And I was, like, going back and forth, I was actually really, really into the the film. And then when it ended, I was mad, but that went away. And I haven't stopped thinking about it. And I love it now.
Josué:I I I enjoyed the experience, and now and now I I appreciate it very much. Mark, this is very different from our conversation last week.
Marc:Yeah, it really was. We've come to a consensus that we actually both like this film.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's my take.
Link:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a weird one because it's a horror movie, but it's not really scary in the ways that one expects a horror movie to be when you say, that's a horror movie. But yeah, a lot of a lot of emotions.
Josué:Oh, I want to I want to comment on that that it's, I think, Get Out is the one that comes to mind, right? When people are like, Oh, that's a horror movie. But what's the monster? It's racism. Like, like, that's it.
Josué:Right? And it's even like a meme at this point. Right? Like, oh, if it's a if it's a Jordan Peele movie, it's a surprise, the monster's racism. And but that is it does take a very deep fear and presents it in a way that it's I I think we've talked about this in the past where, like, home invasion movie is terror it can be terrifying because you're afraid of of, like, somebody invading your home and robbing you or attacking you or killing you.
Josué:I think get out works a lot because it shows you in a different and fun way. Right? Like, it has a sci fi element to it. And and so this movie does the same thing, but with with different, like, there there are things here that I think are terrifying in the movie, but it's it's not a monster. It's it's something else.
Link:Yeah. Yeah. I think it was so genius to have this. The TV show that our main characters are obsessed with is called The Pink Opaque. And it is very much a a buffy style monster of the week, young adults TV series.
Link:And it does the thing where it's like, yeah, every week is a different monster. And the main bad guy is a guy called Mr. Melancholy. Terrifying. Terrifying.
Link:The man in the moon. But just just like the delightful on the nose ness of naming the big bad Mr. Melancholy is like oh yeah, depression. It's terrifying. Truly villainous.
Link:I yeah. I like using this TV show that they're that our main character Owen and Maddie are both obsessed with as middle school and high schoolers. I think really deeply connects to a lot of people's experiences of being that age and feeling extremely disconnected from your your quote unquote, real life. I know for some of us having, you know, not great home lives really added to that aspect of looking for something to escape into. When I was much younger, it was Harry Potter, you know, getting older moving into different different things, but very much relate to that idea of like, my my real life is suffering and discomfort and feeling misunderstood by the people around me.
Link:And having this this media, this story that I can become fully invested in that I can escape to. I think that a lot of people can relate to that experience even if they didn't grow up in that specific time period that they are referencing. Just that that kind of nostalgia feels true.
Josué:Maddie says, right, like the show feels more real than real.
Link:Yeah, I wrote that down in my notes. Yeah. Sometimes the show feels more real.
Josué:Yeah. It's it's like that. I'm more comfortable there. That's that's home. That's where I go to.
Josué:I'd rather go there. And so that feels yeah. And and for, like, as a kid, saying it that way.
Link:Yeah. Yeah. I really like Yeah. That Yeah. Definitely.
Link:I like that part a lot. And then I think pairing that that conversation with when Maddie and Owen are on the bleachers. And Owen's like, hey, can we watch the pink opaque again? And Maddie says, hey, I like girls. You know that, right?
Link:And Owen's like, oh, oh, that's fine. She's like, do you like girls? And Owen's like, I don't know. Well, do you like boys? I think that I like TV shows.
Link:And I think that that was that was such an emotional moment for me of that. That idea of when you are a teen and and trying to understand your own identity and sexuality and gender and your relationships to other people and how overwhelming all of that can feel and just feel like I'm not into any of that. I'm into just TV wanna watch TV with you. And I like the I saw the TV glow is is explicitly a trans story. However, I do think that in the way that they framed this, that can be applied to other aspects of your identity, and just more generally existing as a human person.
Link:Having that that I don't I don't know. But what I do know is I like I like TV show. I don't know
Lara:how I feel about climate change and the world as it is now. I like TV show.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. But that expectation, obviously, you're just a horny teenager. It's like, actually, I'm a big fucking nerd. And that's all I think about and care about.
Josué:I'm not sorry that, you know,
Link:I do I do think that that could be, you know, very relatable for asexual people to have it be like, yeah, I'm I don't like boy. I don't like girl. I like TV show.
Marc:But Yeah. I think it was also, like, really important because, like, after that, then Owen kinda goes on and he's like, you know, oh, I I know something's wrong with me. My parents know it too. Like, taking on that blame and just coming in with the assumption, like, oh, something's wrong with me because people talk about these things, but I just have no desire. I have no feelings towards any of that.
Marc:Like, he was like, it feels like there's a missing piece. Like, something scooped out and I'm empty, where other kids and other people that they see are not like that. And so to him, he's internalizing that as something's wrong with me. And my parents know something's wrong with me and there's something going on, but we just don't know what it is. And I think for especially kids that are kind of discovering their own identities and things like that, If depending on how they were raised, the culture, the household, and just kind of all these other things that go into it, once they start realizing and kind of making these discoveries for themselves, then it's like, oh, but especially if they're contradicting what they've known their whole life.
Marc:Like, that's also that internal struggle where, like, sometimes they can blame themselves and think that there is something wrong with them when in reality, that's not necessarily the case.
Josué:Yeah. You can like you said, like, I think it yeah. It can be applied to so many different ways, same as you just did now, Mark.
Link:Absolutely.
Josué:And something else you said so you mentioned that already, like, but that the the the movie is explicitly trans what are the words that you used? A trans
Link:A trans story.
Josué:A trans story. Right? And, like, I knew that going in, and I still didn't see it, like, all the way through. Right? Like, was looking at it and wasn't until the very end where I'm like, okay, I guess this is it.
Josué:Right? But it wasn't, like, super explicit to me, which just means that I couldn't identify or relate to that particular piece. But then I read, like, the first article that I read online, it was talking about it framed it in like, it was just acknowledging how even even through interviews with, with the director was like, that was their intention. But also, we made it super like, we made everything vague enough so that it was super relatable. So, like, that was that was an interesting part of the of watching it and also, like, going back and forth.
Josué:I'm like, this is supposed to be a trans allegory. Like, where where is it? Where is the where where is it? And it wasn't until the very end where I was like, okay. Okay.
Josué:I I I see it. But I think that throughout most of the movie, for me, I couldn't see it. But that didn't affect my enjoyment of the story or like we've been talking about different examples of how it can be related in different ways.
Link:I like that aspect because it feels like it gives you space to be closer to Owen as as an audience member if you're not immediately like, oh, I know that this is a trans story. I know what's going to happen here. If if you just like Owen feel this constant state of unease, and that there is something about your world that is not real, is not feeling real to you. And that is such a broad experience not just about transness. So I do think that that is a really powerful way to to wait until like the last third of the movie to actually start, cutting into the montage of showing Owen wearing a dress as that being like the reveal and we're getting the monologue where Maddie is talking about her experiences and is starting to call Owen Isabelle.
Link:Having before that just be this sense of unease and unrealness. I think that that makes it easier to connect to Owen's experience in the movie.
Lara:And thinking about my, my client my trans clients who have so many experiences of having a moment where it's like, oh, this is what it is. I'm trans. And then going back and connecting like, Jose was, like, going back and forth, going back and finding the threads in the past. Oh, that means this is a trans story. This is where the hints were along the way, and then there's this moment of Right?
Josué:Whether whether it's more meta metaphorical or literal, I think depends. Bear with me here. It depends on whether or not you believe Maddie or not, like, if it's true or not. So I'm very curious. Where do you guys stand on that?
Josué:What's your headcanon?
Marc:So, Jose, I think I was a lot like you in that sense of, like, I you know, I know Link had mentioned that, you know, about everything with the film. And I I I was also, like, I didn't see it. Like, I didn't really get it or experience until watching
Josué:a movie. Yes. Yes. Exactly.
Link:So that's where I
Marc:was. So, like, when it came to the Maddie like, with with Maddie, like, my head started whirling of, like, it like, what is going on? Like, what's I found it really hard to believe Maddie, but I also think, like, that's just out of me getting sucked into, like, the actual story bit of it where I'm like, this sounds like, you know, maybe maybe Maddie something's going on here. Like, I I don't think I in my head, I fully believed her either. Like, it it just sounded very far fetched.
Marc:So you don't And then You're you don't believe her. I yeah. And that's how I was watching the film. I think as I've gone back and, you know, you know, read articles and kind of did some my own reflection, like, now I'm like, okay. I get it.
Marc:But in during during the point of the film, like, did not believe her. I was like, nah.
Josué:Wait. Wait. Wait. So where do you stand? Where do you stand?
Josué:What do you get?
Marc:As I stand right now, I believe her.
Josué:Okay. Okay.
Marc:Okay. Currently, in in this in this present moment, I believe her. But during the film, I was not. I I did not believe her.
Josué:Okay. See, because I think it makes a difference if you like, again, it's less metaphorical and more literal if Owen is Isabelle. Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Josué:But if Maddie's not telling the truth, then it's more of a metaphor that Owen is Isabelle because it's not it's not literal within the story. That that that's the way it was for me in my mind. Mhmm. Yeah. So what what
Lara:are saying? The truth. He literally cuts himself open. The glow at the TV and the glow and all of that coming out of his chest. Matt is telling the truth, but he doesn't realize it then that he's Isabelle because he doesn't believe her.
Lara:Right? And there's like I don't know. That's an allegory for there are other people who will say that other people around me knew before I did and had to explain it to me. Right?
Josué:This movie this movie is so smart. Like, okay. I'm gonna get out of the okay. So if that's true, that Owen cut his cut his cut his chest and and and saw inside, the scene right before that was when he's yelling at the birthday party and everybody's frozen. Was that real also?
Lara:I think it's all real.
Josué:I think that's real. But he's in the real world.
Link:He's in the midnight realm.
Josué:Yeah. In the midnight realm. And
Link:that's why the people froze because he didn't react. Right.
Josué:Right. Right.
Marc:Because he started having that realization of, like, oh.
Josué:But the game not the game. The show got it. So he's not in the show. He's in the midnight realm of the show. Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. See, I was thinking see, I I was thinking that this is the real world because of something that Maddie said. The way she framed it was like, this is, like, this is where we watch the show. The show exists from the real world. Okay.
Lara:That makes more sense. That makes sense. Him so that he would go back to their real world.
Marc:And wake up and then expel the poison that was put into Isabelle. And
Josué:Got it.
Marc:One of the articles I was reading was stating how the the pink opaque in and of itself, like, they were younger was their memories. And that's and for Maddie, since Maddie at the time, like, when they were meeting and watching it, she was, you know, a couple years older, it clicked for her faster than with Owen. And so that's why she ran away and did this self discovery and then ended up finding her way back to the real world, discovering everything, and then decided to come back to the midnight realm to try to save
Link:save Isabel. Yeah. Isabel.
Josué:And But the real world in that case is the world
Marc:of Is the the is the pinko
Link:pinko pink pink
Marc:so the the because that's like, no. We need to get back and and we need to figure out what's going on. We need to put a stop to this. And that's when Owen rejects that Yeah. Out of out of fear.
Marc:He's like, I know. Like, this is this is my life. This is my world. I I can't.
Lara:You're crazy. I'm not getting buried alive.
Marc:A lot. Because to him, this it's this is his perceived reality. Like, this is how he and this is how he wants to be because he he's afraid of stepping out of there and kind of accepting his true nature, which then later on realizes, ah, I made a goof, and now I have anxiety.
Link:I think it's it's so important, the way that they introduce, Maddie and Owen. Owen's the introduction we get to the pink opaque from Owen's perspective is the they can't hurt you if you don't think about them line. And Owen repeats that line. When Maddie is trying to get them to be buried, is the if you don't think about them, they can't hurt you. And then mirroring that against Maddie using the line, I'll die if I stay here.
Link:And I think that that really shows the differences between these two characters in that for Maddie, staying in that place is more scary than going into the unknown. And for Owen, staying in the unhappy place that is known is better than going into that. The unknown is way more scary for Owen. And I think I think that's really beautiful the way that they show those two experiences at each other. And that the that line, where Owen says, I kept waiting for her to come back and force me into the hole to force me underground.
Link:But I never saw her again. And then they do another time skip, which I gotta tell you those time skips really like, emotionally, when the the 20 later pops up, that's when I start crying. For some reason that that aspect that they talk about that the quote unquote real world time is different is is you know, fast compared to within the pink opaque that only seconds are passing. And the the fear of that experience in real life of just being like, last week, was 2020. It was March 2020.
Link:Last week, what are you talking about? Four years later, four and a half years later.
Lara:We're already almost it's September. We're already almost 2025. Yep. Back
Link:Oh, and just just the real for me, I relate more to Maddie in that the the staying still is scarier to me than the unknown. But I think that the way we see Owen's experiences, especially with the the very few short scenes we see Owen with his dad and Owen with his mom, think do really under like shape our understanding of why Owen doesn't accept what Matti is saying as true, even even when he knows, even when he knows it's true.
Josué:Glad you explained why the time jump got you. Like that. Yeah. I also relate to Maddie strongly. But in the sense of so many times I've been the friend or the family member, that's like, oh, this is fucked up.
Josué:You should go. And then I look back, and I'm the only one who left. Right? And then stupidly, I will come back down the line and be like, I figured it out. I think we should we should we should go.
Josué:And then I get tackled in the middle of of a of a football field, and they run away. That part hit me multiple times. So so I I 100% believed Maddie all the way through. But that was the part that I that I related to the most. And I and I was thinking that maybe also, like that being a someone in a helping profession, like, you might feel that way as well, really trying to help clients.
Josué:And sometimes I think we've talked about this recently, you and me, Link, but the the idea that, like, it's it's not you, it's the world that sucks. Like, reaction to the the the fact that you feel pain is seems like an like, a rational reaction to how shitty the world is. This is why, like, I thought the night room realm was the real world. Like, I added a level of complexity to it, but Nayas is more about me than anything else. And and so the fact that she's, you know, he's he's suffering there, sometimes as as a helping professional, you're trying.
Josué:You can it can get very demoralizing and exhausting to continue to help somebody to to tolerate their current experience. And I remember when when I worked with kids, one of my first supervisors said, our sometimes the best we can do is to help these kids survive their parents.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:And that broke me. That was like, I was still an intern when that happened. But that feels very different when someone is an adult and they have more agency. And and like Owen, you see them. And it's like, hey.
Josué:You don't you don't have to. And for whatever reason, right, for whatever reason, they either don't see the options or they're too afraid to choose or there's a number of different reasons for that. But then feeling powerless because you you you can't help that person move forward. And I thought that the movie did that in such a cool way, you know, showed that. Because it feels very different to me, this story, both from a small town and we gotta get out of here or else we're gonna end up like everybody else.
Josué:You know? And then they fast forward and you're just, like, overweight and alcoholic and, you know, you you don't have a good job or something. Right? Or or how movies have shown things like that and then, oh, but this person escaped and went to college, blah blah blah. This doesn't do that.
Josué:This shows what I read the director say was described it as this isn't a story about growth. You don't see your main character, Owen, growing. You see him decaying. Right? And that word decay was, like, so good.
Josué:And and and that that's the thing that I keep thinking about the most because I have people in my life. I see people. I've seen people in my life where I can see the decay. At the end, you can see, like, physically, he's not okay. And sure, he's got, like, the dry lips and you could you know, we don't could be drugs.
Josué:It could be something else. But I just saw it as, like, he is drying up inside. Like, he is he is he is literally in decay. Yeah. He is literally suffocating.
Josué:And, like, I know people who, their health is so is so bad. And I'm like, is that is that is that because you're so tense constantly and because your your life just just fucking sucks? Or is it an actual health condition? Like, I don't know. I've been obsessed with this idea for years now, And and it's part of the reason why I'm going back to school.
Josué:So this movie hit on all of those things very directly. And and, yeah, that those are kinda like where where I related most to and and the things that most stood out to me.
Link:I I wanna of different things that we could touch on. But I would like to touch on as as we're talking about this, we're not watching Owen grow. We are watching Owen decay. We are watching Owen dying. The the audio of Owen wheezing, asthmatic wheezing through the the end scenes really, you know, looping back into that Isabelle is suffocating underground.
Link:That aspect is really beautiful. I think the visual effects of static from TVs, which talking about it, like thinking about right now, realizing that the word static, that it means unmoving. And that is so indicative of, of Owen's experience of not literally doesn't move out of his childhood home doesn't move out of his suburb town. But also that on TVs, we call it static because moving pictures. But the visual experience and the auditory experience of static is it changes the lights flicker and and the sound makes the noises and so the viewer experience of static is not stillness.
Link:But Owen's experience is static. In the in the original, I don't know if it's the original sense of the in the sense of the word in the unmoving. I think that that is really beautiful. Also, the way that they use sidewalk chalk in a couple of scenes when Owen is outside walking through his town. And it visually looks like static.
Link:With with all that build up to the last time that we see that that image with the static chalk on the street, it says there is still time which is I think, a really cool choice in the film to have that message because that message is so clearly for us the audience and it is not for Owen. Because Yeah. In that in that shot, Owen is walking away from it. He does like a half turn over his shoulder, and then keeps walking away. And it's I think that that was that was like poetic film moment.
Josué:Yeah, yeah.
Link:Just just all those layers of this this the static inside him the static inside us.
Josué:I'll add another layer to this because I think I think I think this is gold. I think this is good. The whole thing about that word static. Static is also an electric, you know, like an electricity term. And the first I just googled it to see like what definition came up.
Josué:And the first one that comes up is an imbalance of positive and negative charges in a material that builds up until it's released.
Link:Oh.
Marc:In which case, you know, layers?
Josué:You were talking about layers? What? Layers.
Link:And and Isabelle Israel slash Owen not released. But we, the audience, once those credits goes black and then the credits start, we are released.
Lara:Oh, man. Look up the ending
Marc:on the I would even I I would argue that, like, when when he finally has a breakdown and starts screaming, that's the release. Like, that's when it starts coming out. It's like the the imbalance was so built up in him until he finally has this break and starts making the connections and the realizations that, like, ah, she was right and
Lara:I should have believed her.
Marc:I yeah. And it's like, okay. I he he starts to understand that, like
Josué:Do you think so? Like, I don't I don't I don't I mean Yeah. I don't think he's understanding it.
Marc:I think that's when he starts beginning to understand it. But even even in the wake of him making that realization that Matty was right, he still chooses to live with the unhappiness. Like, it's like, ah, you were right. However, I'm still going to do this because this to me feels safer than
Lara:And also, having to kind venture there's no point now. I'm old. Like,
Link:yeah. Yeah. I do think in that in that shot, when he cuts open his chest, and you can see the static, he is, like, smiling, not not fully, like, grinning smiling, but there is an elation that is happening on his face. And then cutting to he puts the clothes back on and he walks out into the fun arcade and starts apologizing to everybody which in the intro conversation between Owen and Maddie, Maddie says don't apologize and so I think you are totally right. I think also Maddie was right in that.
Link:She said you, you know, I'm right, you know the truth. And I think in that moment, it was another thing where Owen did buy into the premise and still chose not to. And I think this is a detail I caught on my second watch in the supermarket when Owen is in front of the vegetables and Maddie reappears.
Josué:Holding a steak.
Link:Holding. Yeah. I I saw a TikTok.
Lara:I'm on Maddie's side. I have a steak. I saw
Link:a TikTok. Somebody was talking about like the the the rotting vegetables and then the the cut up meat and like and then the when it does the wide shot and it shows both of them and it's their three huge American flags above them and it's just like that's about the commodification of bodies and the way capitalism destroys us. But the detail that I caught is that as Owen is pushing the shopping cart across the frame, he walks forward, and then stops and then backs turns his whole body around and backs up to grab the grocery bag thing. You guys know what I'm talking about the little the little grocery bag roll that's up at the top. There's one right in front of him when he stops the cart.
Link:And so there's this aspect of even though the goal of what he needs is right there in front of him, he chooses to turn around and take steps back instead. And then that's when he turns around again and then sees Maddie and I just aspect, the same thing with the, the wide shot on the football field, how he pushes her down and then he runs back. And I think that that is Owen, is that Owen does recognize that this what that this is wrong, that he is living a lie and is still choosing it. And that is the saddest, most horrifying part of it. Is it not?
Marc:That's the true horror
Link:is It's the true horror.
Marc:Life is a lie.
Link:We've all experienced that, right? Watching somebody do something that you know they know is going to harm them is not furthering them towards their goals. Everybody is in agreement that that is a bad choice to make. And yet, they'll do it and you can't control it. You that's not you can only control your own actions.
Link:And there there is a relational horror to that of of watching somebody fill in their own coffin, their own grave.
Marc:And I I think that's actually I think that lends even more power to when Owen is narrating. And like you mentioned earlier how, like, he mentions, like, I was waiting for her to come back and force me into it to wake myself up because he himself couldn't take that step. I think the like, that in and of itself is such a huge message because ultimately, like, when it comes to, you know, your own identity or coming into your own your own sense of self, like, there is nobody that can force you or make you do anything when it comes to that except for yourself. And so for him, he's like, please just come back and and do this for me. When in reality, it's like, no.
Marc:You have to do this and want this for yourself. And that's why we don't see Maddie anymore because Maddie Maddie did her best and and Maddie tried to help him realize things. And then when he refused on numerous occasions, at that point, it's like, okay. Like, you are not ready to face this. So when you are ready, you can take that step.
Marc:However, that's not gonna diminish her. That's not gonna hold her back. She's going to continue to do what she needs to do for her own self, not not sit there and wait for him to to to make these realizations or or come to that acceptance.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:So here's where where I'm my view is just a little bit different where
Link:Good.
Josué:And to me, it's more horrific, I think.
Link:Love to hear it.
Josué:And again, it's something that is more that I've I've I've been thinking a lot about in recent years. I hear you all talking about this and correct me. But it sounds like we're we're arguing for a lot of, like, agency on behalf of Owen that I don't think that he has. Where, like, he may be seeing it, but I don't think that he necessarily registers. Like, I I I think I don't give him as much credit as, like, he ripped his heart his his chest open, and he's seeing the static.
Josué:And he's like, oh, it's real. I don't think I don't think that's what's happening. I think it's like, this feels good, but I don't understand it. I don't know why I'm gonna ignore it. It's like, I can't really see it.
Josué:My brain is not actually processing it, which to me is more horrific because there's something tragic about someone choosing you know, like, oh, I'm I'm I'm still kind of afraid, but I see clearly that this is the path. And I don't think, in in my view, again, slightly different, he doesn't see the path. Like, there that isn't actually an option. And so I I think that's a little different than than than what you're saying because
Marc:yeah. It's kinda like kinda stepping into that side and, like, kinda making getting like a hint of it, but not fully grasping at like being able to put all the pieces together to like make that realization and understand that this is a path for them.
Josué:I don't think they know. Yeah. Don't think they they understand.
Marc:It's like here's the missing piece that you need, and it's like, I don't know what this is. I'm a just and then they just toss it. You know? It's like, I I don't know what this is. I I I can't can't even begin to think or realize like, this is this is what I'm looking for.
Marc:It's like, okay, cool. Alright. Now I got to put on my shirt back on and walk back out there and continue to be a good employee.
Josué:There's a monster in an episode of doctor who that that distorts your vision. Right? And, like, you always feel like it's on the edge of the periphery, but you can never look straight at it. So no one actually sees that there's, like, an extra door, which is the room where the monster is hiding. There's just like a this feeling, but you can't actually see it.
Josué:And and I feel like like that. Like that that's fucking terrifying. Like, is there something in like, again, working with people to the point where you're like, do you how can how much of this is actually in your control? Is this a symptom of the disorder? You know?
Josué:Or is it or, like, is it a brain like, what whatever it is. Right? Is it I think it's more than just choosing or being afraid to take one option over another. Because, again, like, the idea that he's choosing to stay is is is one thing to me is tragic, and the fact that he can't choose to leave is is horrific.
Link:That is not how I read it. But I do think that there's definitely legs to that idea, especially when you contextualize it by Owen talking about I rewatched the pink opaque it's available on streaming now and that it's a completely different show. It's it's way more childish. It's a hokey. There's nothing scary or or full of truth in it.
Link:And having that contextualize Owen seeing the static inside and just being like, well, I don't recognize it anymore as what it is. And that would be the I can't I can't choose it because I do not I no longer recognize it for what it is. And then having the apology scene right after that is less apologizing for screaming at a children's party and more and to us apology of like I can I can no longer see that anymore? It is it is become too changed. Yeah.
Link:I think it's got legs. Yeah. The way that I read it originally, but I do I don't I don't think you're wrong. I I think that there's that that there is an extra layer of of horror to it's of that Mr. Melancholy has more power in the in the nightmare realm than Owen ever did.
Josué:Like when when he's apologizing, right? I don't think of it. I I think he's saying,
Marc:like, I don't know what
Josué:that was. I'm so sorry. Like, I apologize. Not so you know, like, different than I I know I know why he's apologizing because he's like, he interrupted the party. But I I saw it more again, like, do you see how I'm seeing the lens that I'm seeing it through?
Josué:Mhmm.
Link:Yes.
Josué:He's like, I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. What was that? I don't even know. But he's saying that not just to cover up, but literally, doesn't know what the fuck just happened.
Josué:So it's very horrific in my mind. The guy the the Black Mirror episode, where the guy's biggest fear is to have Alzheimer's like his father. And he has Alzheimer's, right? I think I think of I think of I think of it on that spectrum, right? Like, what if your brain is actually not?
Josué:Or your soul or whatever it is, right? Mr. Melancholy, right? Like, it's too it's too powerful, and there's no agency. Anyway, what a movie.
Josué:But I'll think you had more notes, sure.
Link:Oh, I thought the soundtrack was really cool. I liked the just some other little details picking up a lot of the scenes that we see are shots. Owen is often on one side of the screen or other. He's very rarely centered except when he is talking to Maddie, and then they are both very centered and up close. What else do I have in my notes?
Josué:Oh, what are you what are your thoughts on on his narration?
Link:Oh, okay. I love the premise of starting out this movie with feeding a fire out in out in the dark and telling, you know, scary stories to tell in the dark, right? It's like, that's the that's the little winky nudge nudge happening there. But I did just see people talking about on TikTok that there's research that if you're like out in the wilderness alone, that you're supposed to talk to your fire that while you're trying to make a fire to survive that you should talk to the because that is that is your baby. That's your baby.
Link:You should be And talking to so that that aspect of when Owen breaks the fourth wall and he is speaking to us, making eye contact with us when that is done over the fire versus when he is like turning from a scene to look at us, those those ones were often the the hard left or right side that Owen sat on. I think there was just some really beautiful cinematography done with those shots in the way that Owen and Maddie exist within the frame. And then when they are together, how the the camera changes.
Josué:Yeah. And later on in the movie when he when it does the time jump, right, he's like telling us, I have a family of my own and I've never been this happy. My god.
Link:That long held shots on the delivery of the flat screen TV with the LG Life's Good logo placement, I would I was thinking about that for a long time that they did that that extremely, like advertising shots of that the old TV getting taken out the new TV being delivered and then pan up life's good. It's like, I'm going to fucking lose it.
Josué:That's also the same point where he right. He says, mom died. Dad died. Now I'm a grown man. Right?
Josué:So, like, I'm staying in the same house. It's like it's like now it's my house and I have a family of my own and it's great. And and the only thing that has changed is that you got the TV. Picking up on the LG is good. Like, I I I I could see the LG right now.
Josué:I was like, that's weird product placement. I didn't think of of what does LG stand for.
Lara:I wanna know how he afford could afford the flat screen TV on the fund center salary.
Josué:Flat screen TVs are super cheap. They're super cheap. I don't think he bought one
Marc:of the got
Josué:it on
Link:a Black Friday sale.
Josué:Awesome. Yeah. He also Plus
Marc:With his with his
Link:small discount.
Marc:Plus, sure that at that point in time, that house was already paid off.
Josué:It's true. He doesn't pay rent. Life insurance with two parents.
Lara:Oh, yeah. That's that's the many mortgages his parents left him with.
Link:That was the
Marc:I'm sure
Link:he's fine.
Lara:I mean
Josué:He's good. He's never been happier. What are talking about? Exactly.
Marc:Life is good.
Link:Life's good.
Lara:That was
Link:an that was another, like, the set design of, like, Owen's bedroom had this, like, cut in archway that his bed so very enclosed space, that opening scene where Owen is underneath the the tent balloon thing that children play with, that that same enclosed Mhmm. Trapped thing all being like referential to like, you're trapped inside of the nightmare realm, you're trapped inside of the night you are enclosed you are trapped within. It's like, oh, yum yum yum yum yum
Josué:yum. I
Link:also really liked the set design on Maddie's house just the way that they used the the back of the couch and the sleeping bag on the floor all lit by the, aquarium, and then all of the furniture and the walls and flooring is all very, 90s. Well, seventies via nineties stuff is it felt like a very real place that I went to as a child. Really, really beautiful sets.
Josué:I will have one more question if you don't have anything else in your notes.
Link:Yes.
Josué:You already don't.
Link:I just add another aspect that, like, really hit me personally is when, when we get the the flashback scene to Owen watching the season five finale and his reaction to it and that sort of sci fi getting sucked into the TV part. And then, his dad pulls him out and he's like, barfing up static in the bathtub and he's screaming this is not my home.
Josué:I don't know about you guys,
Link:but if you've ever had kind of psychic break from reality, that that really hit me in the emotions of that that that screaming, this is not my home, that that awful pain that he expresses in that scene and and that it's sci fi shit that's happening, but it feels so true to my own experiences and everything that that was, that was a really impactful scene. But I think I think that's all my notes. I just wrote momento Mori on my notes. Momento Mori. Yay.
Link:Oh, in is a prison.
Josué:Like, like twenty minutes before that scene that you just mentioned is when he comes across the episode guide.
Lara:And
Josué:it does show a bit season six episode one, and it's called escape from the nightmare realm. And so later on when they're talking about the season five, right, I mean, we we kinda covered that already, but I thought that that was so cool that it was so explicit early on, you know, and then it well, I mean, it wasn't explicit then. Was explicit when the season the the the last episode went after you know, it was canceled this season five. And it kind of then you realize, like, oh, we're picking up right after that. I thought that was so cool.
Josué:Mhmm. Okay. My last question. The director has said that they're considering a sequel. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. Everybody kinda cocked their heads. So what would you want that sequel to be? Wow.
Link:That's
Josué:Laura's fact checking me.
Link:Really interesting. No. Because I remember
Lara:what I remember reading wasn't that specific that it was gonna be a sequel, but that it was gonna be a three part story or something at some point.
Josué:I didn't read anything about three
Lara:parts typewriter. Kind of thing.
Link:I mean, I am definitely down to spend more time in this space. The just the the pink opaque as as, an idea is fun. That's to my interests as a buffy watcher. I I like this movie on its own, and I like that it has like a fucking heartbreaking ending. Mhmm.
Link:So I I guess I would be a little bit worried. But ultimately, I do I do want I want Isabelle to be happy and alive. So if we're gonna if we're gonna go back and we're gonna save we're gonna save Isabelle, I'm back on. I'll see it. Hell yeah.
Josué:I I at when the movie ended, of course, I thought we were on the path toward saving Owen and Isabelle. But now that it's ended, I I wanna leave that story there. I hope they don't touch that. Like, I would other than they could do, like, a life is strange kind of thing and do another story within the world, but I would like to see Maddie's side of it because Maddie, we don't see the journey that Maddie was on. I think it would be cool to see to see her leave, see her come back, and then leave again and see, what that is.
Josué:And then and then through her, we can actually jump into the the pink opaque because we know that she she made it back. Mhmm.
Lara:Well, the interview I see is different from the first one that I read about it possibly being, like, a anthology three part anthology kind of movie. We is saying that the director would like to look at the story for or look at the world and the and the story from a different perspective. So I think that feeds into what you're saying, Josue. Like, they're they're very tight lipped about what they wanna do.
Josué:Yeah. It sounds like it's just like
Lara:that it would require having Justice Smith and Bridget Lundy Payne reprising their roles in some way.
Josué:So what would you like to see, Lara?
Lara:I don't know if I wanna see another one.
Josué:That's a good answer. That's a
Lara:I I like the ambiguity. Right? And the discussion that the the ending has we've had and other people are having. And I think adding to it might I would love to see another movie by this director. Right?
Lara:I just don't know if I would add to this. They're I mean, they do
Link:have another movie called We're All Going to the World's Fair, which
Josué:World's Fair.
Link:I enjoyed, but I don't recommend to most people. Yeah. So it's a very weird found footage. I don't know.
Josué:Don't forget the Slenderman documentary.
Link:Don't it? Yeah. I don't know that most people would vibe with that one as much as I saw the TV glow I think is a lot more accessible. I think you use the word anthology and that does make me a little bit excited because do think that you could absolutely just retell this story with with with Isabel and Tara in a different setting. You do the same thing where it's like the pink opaque is real and we are stuck inside the nightmare realm trying to escape.
Link:And it's all trans allegories. You could absolutely do that. Yes. They're like, well this time we're doing, you know, nostalgia for the 2012. God.
Link:Sorry. That made me feel old. Don't. Don't.
Lara:Was right
Link:the We're we're switching it where Tara and Isabelle are playing the other side. So you get to see I I think I think you could do something cool with it doing anthology. I am worried about continuing the story from where we ended, just because I like that it's bleak. I think it's impactful that way. I like that there's space for interpretation of how bleak it is.
Link:But yeah, that's I'm intrigued. I'm interested. I definitely Justice Smith has become one of my favorite actors. I I really, really like his work. I I loved him in this.
Link:I loved him in the Dungeons and Dragons movie. I loved him in the quarry, the video game. He's he's doing great stuff. I really yeah. Big fan.
Josué:Mark, what would you like to see?
Marc:I'm in the same boat. I don't I don't think I want to. Like, it's kinda giving iron giant vibes where it's such a great story, and it it I like that it like everyone's saying, and it has the ambiguity. It it's open to interpretation. But ultimately, like, this story feels like it has a, I don't wanna say satisfying ending, but it has an ending where it's like, I'm okay with this.
Marc:Like, this is a good end to the story despite the fact that it's bleak and it it's not looking too bright. But at the end of the day, like, it tells a story and it tells it beautifully. Don't touch it. Like, you got yourself a great movie. Leave it alone.
Marc:Don't I I personally would not want to see I mean, if they if they like you guys are saying, like, if they did it a little differently, did a retelling or had it within the universe using different characters, I'll watch it. But if they tried to continue this story, I I feel like it would muddle everything that this first movie created. It it it almost downplays it. And and if they were to go back and try to save Isabelle, as great as that would be, I feel like that just, like, completely defeats the whole purpose of the first film, of of this film.
Josué:Have any of you seen the magicians, the show? Okay.
Lara:Only the first few episodes.
Josué:So Link, remember the episode where the two guys get trapped, and they live an entire lifetime together on a farm.
Link:It has been several years since I watched the magicians and then when I watched them, I was sick and I binged the whole series. So I don't have a great memory of it, but I do remember that the the dudes that they had the the lived a whole lifetime together.
Josué:And that's that's happened in different stories. Right? But it's in in one episode that happens. Right? And so, you know, I like world building.
Josué:So from, like, taking a step backwards in the sense of the show, this could just be one episode, right, where he's like where it's it's like Tara is trying to save Isabel. Isabel is stuck in this other world, but we're seeing the nightmare that Isabel is going through. And, you know, in my canon of the actual pink opaque, he dies eventually of old age and wakes up back in the pink opaque. And it's just this horrible nightmare, and it's just, you know, like a fifteen minute segment in season six episode one where he escapes from the nightmare realm. But the fact that, like, the movie does that, right, it's just it's just, like, zooming in to that one piece.
Josué:To me, that means that there's five seasons before that may have a story that's really interesting, or we could jump to, like, season eight when we, like, return to the nightmare realm, you know, and there's, like, reflections on that previous experience or something like that. Or, like, it doesn't have to continue this Owen story exactly, you know, but it can be a little bit I don't know. I think there's, like, lots of possibility, but I don't like a retelling.
Link:You could you could do a sequel where Owen has become mister melancholy and Tara slash Maddie is trying to come back in and and defeat Mr. Melancholy with with new with new pink opaque girls. I don't think I would like that. But you could do that. Think I would be mad.
Link:But you could do that.
Marc:Is sounding like the pink opaque multiverse right now.
Josué:Like, we're gonna bring it
Link:to other people. Girl. The true nineties experience of being into a TV show is like, well, we have to wait a full week until the next episode. And we're just gonna theorize our fan theories on AIM.
Josué:Remember the Robert Rodriguez movies that the one he did with Quentin Tarantino where it was like, there were snippets and there were these trailers for fake movies.
Link:Like Planet Shade.
Josué:And then they may they ended up making a movie of machete based on show. Yeah. That's how I feel that this is. Right? It's like, we just got to see one nightmare from a monster of the week episode told beautifully.
Josué:So in that sense, right, like, maybe that's the type of anthology. It's like, oh, look at the fucked up shit that this person went through, except that, you know, in the show is only ten minutes. But what if what if we just, you know, expand What
Link:if we give it a cool 94? Yeah. Wait, I don't know. 94 minutes. It's more than that.
Link:It's an hour and forty minutes. It's one hundred minutes.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two votes for two votes against the sequel. We'll see what happens.
Josué:We can discuss it later. Yeah. Good choice Link. I'm glad I finally got to watch it.
Link:Yeah. This is a really good conversation. And I I really love that movie. I hope. Yeah.
Link:If people haven't watched it yet, this is a movie that I don't think knowing spoilers detracts from the experience of it at all. I think both of you guys can admit to, I told you it was a trans story. What was gonna happen? I gave you the full heads up, the trigger warnings. And they still didn't
Josué:give me
Link:any more time. There was still so much juice in there. Yum. Yum. Yum.
Josué:I don't know. I I I think going fresh if you if you can, but you wouldn't be listening to it this far if you
Link:Just skip to the last minute of our
Josué:podcast. Recommend it to other people. Yeah. Going fresh. Cool.
Josué:Well, let us know what you thought of I saw the TV glow, any of our community spaces, links in the show notes. For more geek therapy, visit geektherapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good. I'll be back next week.
Link:Bye.
Josué:Geek therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.
