Cozy Games
Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I am joined by Link Keller. Hi.
Josué:And Lara Taylor. Hey. Alright, team. I I want to visit this idea of emotion regulation. Okay?
Josué:Because I was thinking the other day, like, what can I use to, like, calm down a little bit? How can I what can I use to to to I'm I'm feeling dysregulated? What can I use to to regulate my my nervous system? And the thought occurred to me, and I and I haven't researched this, so I don't know if anybody's ever looked at this. But actually, researched a little bit, but I can not a lot.
Josué:Like, when we talk about cozy games, like, could that have the same kind of effect on us as, like, meditation, for example? I was like, I don't know if anybody's done specific study like that. I did start looking into cozy games and that was a whole that was interesting. Just like with a lot of things in video games, like, can't just refer to video games. There's there's too many differences between between games and among games.
Josué:But it was it was mostly within the context of cozy games. So I'd I'd like to start there. I don't know that we've have we ever talked about cozy games, like, as a as a genre? I know we've talked about specific games that some people would consider cozy. But have we ever talked about
Lara:What? I don't know. We have. I don't know. But but we've talked about
Josué:Talk about cozy games.
Link:We've talked about
Josué:cozy games. And
Lara:and games that are related to each other and why some games or at least that some games people consider are cozy. Other peoples would not consider cozy at all. Yeah. Looking at you, Stardew Valley. Mhmm.
Lara:Mhmm. We've talked a little bit, but not as the term cozy game has come up. I don't think we've talked about it since.
Josué:How how would you define? What's a cozy game to you?
Lara:That that's
Josué:I give me examples. I mean, like, try to define it.
Lara:That's the hard thing. Right? How do you a cozy game is a game that makes me feel like I just wanna snuggle up on the couch and play the game. Like, I I'm gonna chill there. But like, that's so many games.
Lara:Like, literally, I'm playing Final Fantasy seven Rebirth, not a cozy game. But that's all I wanna do, is hang out on the couch under my blanket and play the game. And maybe something that makes your heart rate go down rather than maybe that's a good definition to start
Josué:So does because because one thing I've been thinking about is a lot of video games will act as a distraction for me, which kind of solves the problem temporarily, which is all I'm trying to do. Right? I'm just trying to solve the problem temporarily. Just trying to relax a little, trying to feel a little more regulated. And so the distraction is helpful.
Josué:But I think there's a difference between a game as a distraction, as a as a as a respite, right, as as taking a break versus a game that you're using intentionally to kind of chill. Because there are games that are very exciting for me that are a lot of fun that I'm super engaged in, but that's not necessarily the same thing as like, ah, cozy. So where does where does Final Fantasy seven rebirth fall for you?
Lara:That is, like I said, not a cozy game. Not a Okay. Cozy
Josué:Okay.
Lara:I mean, there are moments where there's some cozy. Right? There's some nice nice gentle cut scenes with the nice little music soothing, and then you get into the battle music like
Josué:Yeah. Yeah.
Lara:Exactly. Exactly.
Josué:Okay. Okay. Link, how would you define a cozy game? Do you do you like cozy games? How do you feel about the genre in general?
Link:I I think Are anti?
Josué:Are you pro?
Link:I think that the term cozy game mostly refers to an aesthetic, like, for marketing. It has less to do with the players' outcomes and more to do with this is a way to market what what we're trying to sell to players.
Josué:What are they trying to sell?
Link:The aesthetic the the cozy aesthetic. The
Lara:Cozy vibes.
Link:Palettes, the pacing that is is common, the the types of mechanics that get utilized, less focus on any sort of combat, not a lack of combat, but the combat is never the main mechanical interface within a cozy game. Okay. I think I think talking about, like, emotion regulation and what you said about, like, wanting to do it, I think that is the major aspect is that's coming from internal to the player themselves, what they are trying to achieve in that way less so than like the concept of like a cozy game, which is more about marketing to like, this is the kind of game that if that's what you're looking for, this is what we're selling.
Josué:I'm not I'm not following you entirely. I'm like the difference.
Lara:Like a cozy game could just be a distraction.
Josué:Well, I'm saying like, if I'm looking for that, like, of course, they're not being marketed as this game will will regulate your nervous system. That's not what they're selling. But if I'm looking for something to do that, like,
Lara:is cozy
Josué:game something to look for?
Link:There was a study, I wanna say either in the late nineties or very early two thousands that looked at first responder EMS people playing Tetris after witnessing a traumatic event. And how that showed like a huge benefit in reducing PTSD occurring or the severity of it if they played this this game. Is Tetris a cozy game? I I don't think so. That's not a a term.
Link:That's not a term I would use to describe Tetris, but it showed that it does a very good job at helping emotion regulation and utilizing the way that our eyes process information as a way to calm the nervous system.
Josué:And I think I think it had a lot to do with bilateral stimulation for so that that way it would it would reduce it like it mixes up the signal in the brain so that you don't get that stamp of trauma. After after a traumatic event. It kind of spreads it out through again, through by by stimulating different parts of the brain simultaneously. So there's just that
Link:one See, I think that you could make a Tetris style game that utilizes the cozy marketing aesthetics where No countdown timer. Elements, not having a timer, having some sort of growth
Lara:what's the word I'm looking for?
Link:Where you put energy into making something grow. Oh, god. I wish my brain worked better. Anyways, that kind of like, those kinds of things added to a Tetris game, you could have a cozy Tetris. But the the Tetris game that I grew up playing, like I would never I would never define that as like, yeah, it's a cozy game even though I absolutely used it as a way to like, it's storming outside and I'm gonna light a candle, and I'm gonna get wrapped up in my my blankies with my stuffed animals and play on my fat original Game Boy.
Link:Yeah. So, yeah, it's it's very, yeah. For me, cozy game is a marketing term.
Lara:If the game makes you curse at the at the system you're playing on and wanna throw it, that's not a cozy game. And Tetris made me many times like, no. No. What the hell? And wanna throw the Game Boy.
Lara:So that's what
Josué:I was thinking. I was thinking about Tetris. Tetris, it just it gets too fast too quickly. It needs to Yeah. It needs to be like 500 levels, and it's slowly getting a little faster every time.
Lara:You feel a little more chance for some flow state?
Josué:That's funny. Yeah. By level eight, I'm like, is not fun anymore. Oh, Tetra's effect though, I wouldn't make the argument for if you ever played that in VR, you're, like, flying through space, so there's you're literally flying above the water and there's dolphins, like, jumping up and down next to you.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:You're on the desert and there's, like, caravan. Just it's that one's cozy. But okay. So so I didn't think about this, but so then link yes. Cozy as a as a marketing term.
Josué:So what kind of when I hear fighting game or when I hear role playing game, I know what that means, an adventure game, a platformer. What kind of game, like, if it isn't, what what would be the type of game that comes to mind? Like, is there a particular genre that defines it better than
Link:I think I think, like, life sim umbrella term that tends to have the most overlap with where I see cozy game get used. But as you're saying that, I don't I don't see cozy game get used by itself very often. It's often like cozy farming sim or cozy Cozy match three. Yeah. Where it is it is an additional descriptor of the game.
Link:It's it's telling you, like, here's the kinds of mechanics to expect to see, and then here's the type of, like, color palette and and creature design.
Josué:Okay. Okay. I don't know. I feel like I like I have found a lot more just cozy as a as a category.
Lara:It's mean
Josué:You can look up cozy on on Steam.
Link:Yes. Like and and that's sort of what it comes down to is it like, its benefit is to help people find that that kind of aesthetic to apply to the types of games that they like to play. And so in that way, it is a it is a useful term, but it is also, like, softly defined.
Lara:I just googled cozy games and Breath of the Wild is one of the ones on the first list on the first list.
Link:If you just, you know, walk through a big field cutting the grass and collecting rice and then making rice balls. Like, yeah, that's the coziest game I've ever played.
Lara:And that does feel like it has the aesthetic.
Link:And then the second it, the second of Lionel shows up, it's the scariest game I've ever played.
Josué:I just I just played a game called I played a bunch of supposed cozy games. Right? Recommendations from link, from multiple lists online, cozy games, subreddit, all of that. And so I just played a I just finished the game called Smushy Come Home. And Smushy Come Home is is Breath of the Wild without anything without any of the stakes, without anything that could possibly including it's not it's not the the map isn't large enough to stress you out.
Josué:There's no time cycles. There's no red moon. There's no there's no enemies. One trait that I found very common among cozy games is that there's no fall damage. I think that I think is a is a checkbox a box to check for for cozy games.
Josué:Yeah. So I did I did just play a game that I felt was like like, it took a whole bunch of of the the best stuff from Breath of the Wild. Just made a good three hour experience out of it.
Lara:It's interesting. Wired has a list of cozy games. Right? Because I think people are latching on to this, not just marketing, but like, it's now it's becoming a thing. They have like four different games they're talking about, and one is adventuring but cozy.
Lara:And that's Sun Haven, which I haven't played. Farming but cozy, Stardew Valley, which I would argue Some people You've argued on
Josué:this show that that's not
Lara:not people, cozy. Some people, it's not. I would argue Littlewood is a better cozy game that is farming. Pizza, but cozy. Good pizza.
Lara:Great pizza. Dungeons and Dragons, but cozy. Baldur's Gate three. They count Baldur's Gate three as a cozy game.
Josué:So so I have I have thoughts about that.
Link:So they think it's a meaningless term also. So
Josué:so I think so I think I agree with this in this in the sense that in this idea, like, this term kept coming up, this idea of low stakes. Right? Mhmm. And because you can save anywhere in Baldur's Gate, that you can save at the middle of a conversation, you can save at the middle of a fight, it removes, like, all of this pressure from the game for me. So I can play and I'm like, oh, like, I can do I can try anything.
Josué:And if I mess up, I can always just go back to the last save.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:A lot of games don't have that. Like, I think that that transforms a lot of different games if you if you do that. Mhmm.
Lara:The argument for Dungeons and Dragons, Baldur's Gate three being cozy. I do think I I saw that there's another, like, Forgotten Realms D and D game coming out that does sound more cozy than than this. But the argument is that, you know, you can with difficulty, you can make it as chill or unchill as you want. I would argue I'm playing on the easiest difficulty, and it's pretty it's still unchill at times. Giant beholders and my players.
Link:Even if you make it mechanically so easy, the content of what you are doing inside of the game is
Lara:not cozy.
Link:They put a worm in my brain. Okay?
Lara:They are specifically referring to the scenes at your campsite. The campfire scenes, it says, each day ends with a campfire, pajamas, and snacks.
Josué:All of the murders of my party have happened at the campsite. Including my own.
Lara:This is wired, everybody. That's their opinion.
Josué:I don't like
Lara:that article. I
Josué:I had seen that article. I didn't I didn't like it.
Lara:It's so funny to me. It's so funny. And then they also talk about island development, but cozy. Animal Crossing, which I do think is a cozy game.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. The definition of cozy.
Lara:Again, I think my definition of a game that raises your heart rate and makes you wanna throw the controller, not a cozy game. And that's Baldur's Gate three. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. I don't I don't know. I don't know. There there are some aesthetics of, like, a lot of these cozy games that make me wanna throw up. So, I mean, it's it just it really depends.
Josué:Like, the art style, I'm like, wow. This isn't cozy for me. It's feeling comfortable. And it's and I know it's supposed to be, like, cartoony and cute. Like, no.
Josué:I don't I don't like it. I don't like this.
Lara:Life but cozy. The Sims four. I don't think The Sims is cozy.
Link:That one that one's an interesting one. I feel like The Sims is is such an interesting game series in Mhmm. In what it is and what it can do. And the way that players choose to engage with it is so varied. It's really hard to categorize The Sims in a way that's like, broadly meaningful.
Link:It's like it gets very narrow where it's like, this is a useful definition within these narrow frameworks of what we're talking about.
Lara:Like, if I think about things, could argue that, like, creative mode in Minecraft is a cozy game. Yeah. Like, totally. No pressure. Low stakes.
Lara:Just building your stuff, hanging out. Yep. Like yeah.
Josué:We can go into other modes and change the settings.
Lara:And it is not cozy anymore. And it becomes your nightmare.
Josué:Literally a survival game.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. I do I do I do like now they're they're which I don't disagree calling them accessibility features. But, like, under the accessibility menu, you can get a lot of stuff that will make the experience less stressful. And, again, I mean, we've talked about this in the past, but, like, hey, if I want a little more challenge, let me give me the option to make it more challenging.
Josué:And ideally, if I can if I if you can if I can make certain parts more challenging than others because I prefer those even better. I like those.
Link:So I do you I think, like, Celeste would be a really good example there because mechanically, that game is not cozy for me. That is a high intensity stress making gameplay. But because of the accessibility features that make it so you can, you know, jump more or be fully invulnerable to damage and all and all this, like, variability to make it more accessible for players. Because of the style, the art style of the game, the color palette, we've got soft, cool pastel colors, and a more internal character focused story, like, it would be very easy for me to describe Celeste within the idea of cozy games, even though me playing that game, not
Lara:a moment of coziness to be found.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah.
Link:But for some players, like, that's absolutely going to meet the requirement of, like, it helped me, like, calm my nervous system down.
Josué:Yeah. The story about Celeste battling her depression. Of this mountain. Yeah. Super cozy.
Josué:That reminded me
Link:For some people. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Literally fighting, like, your shadow self or racing them. Yeah.
Josué:But I think I think ultimately, I think I agree to your point that a game can be cozy to you, but that's a it's hard to define something as a cozy game. I did find a research article that took three games. I think it was A Short Hike, Unpacking, and Greece. It was Greece. It was the third game.
Josué:And they tried to, like, see what was similar within these games, you know, to define them as cozy games. They couldn't come up with anything. Like, those three games are very, very different.
Link:Yeah.
Josué:They're like, yeah, people people call them, yeah, we couldn't find anything. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, those three games are are very different.
Josué:I do you have a so what games are codes like, do you have a go to cozy game or also, I mean, we can come up with a better with a better term for it, you know, a game that shows you the fuck out, a game that, you know, regulates your nervous system.
Lara:I think
Link:if I go further back in time to like the 20 odds, I played a lot of Hexic on my Xbox three sixty, which is a rotating match three game. I found that very soothing. That one doesn't have timers or anything. And I think there's version like modes. Can do that or timed modes.
Link:I that's not the way I played it. More recently, I have returned to Into the Breach three or four times. I find that game the the game's play cycle is consistent in a way that, like, if I'm having a lot of executive dysfunction, it's like, don't even know what I want to play. I don't know what I want to watch. I can't.
Link:I was just sitting here like, something about into the breach is very like, I can I'm just gonna I'm just gonna play a game of that and then see how I feel. And that that has been good for me.
Josué:Got a grid and a limited number of spaces. Have no exactly
Link:I can sit and just stare at the board and sort of dissociate for a little bit and then come back and nothing is moved because I didn't press any buttons. So it just stayed and waited for me. That's good.
Josué:Okay. Okay. Yeah. Those sound to me, like like, sometimes I want I need a flow state. Right?
Josué:And, like, the flow state itself is calming. And so I know games that ramp up just right for me, where I can I can get into into that state, like, RezoGun, like, shoot them ups and bullet hell shooters are the the kind for me? But, like, it starts off slow, but it keeps getting faster and a little more hectic. But it's it's just enough that I can really get lost in it. But, again, in that flow state way, where, like, the challenge continues to grow just little little by little to keep me engaged.
Josué:And and I like that feeling. And sometimes that's that's what I feel like I need to kinda bring me down. Definitely. Lara, what's a what are games like that for you?
Lara:It's interesting. Like, I'm typically a person who I'm playing in, like, one game at a time, usually. I don't really go back to a lot of games. And I think what gets me more and regulates me more, even though my heart rate might go up because I'm in a battle or whatever, is
Josué:the
Lara:narrative, and getting distracted by a narrative. Right? Getting lost in the narrative. I think that regulates me in a different way. However, I have been playing two games at once right now.
Lara:I've been playing Resident Evil or not Resident Evil. Final Fantasy seven rebirth.
Josué:I get them mixed up.
Lara:Totally. Mhmm. Mhmm. So I've been playing that. Still haven't beaten Baldur's Gate, but I'm gonna go back to that because I'm so close to
Josué:the end. And it's so cozy.
Lara:Lara. When The third chapter is the longest one, Josue. But I have been playing Cult of the Lamb, which has that flow state, like, okay, I can just do another I can just do another round out killing some guys, or I'm I'm gonna work on building things and cleaning up my my compound and all that. Gotta bury all these corpses.
Josué:Gotta bury all sacrificing people.
Lara:I haven't even gotten to the sacrificing people, but it's been it's been I've been I've been thinking like, branches am I gonna choose? Which one am I gonna choose to go this way or this way? Am I gonna be someone that sacrifices people and has a body pit first? Or am I gonna go have this prison first or whatever? Right?
Lara:Yeah. Good good times. Nice, cozy feeling thing.
Josué:Nothing like a cult to make you feel
Lara:is it is a cute game. It is a cute game. I love it. And I think about other games that kind of grounded me in that way in the past that I've played. And I think people wouldn't consider this necessarily a cozy game, but, like, I was really into civ five for a while and just like
Josué:Oh, yeah. No.
Lara:I think I I just just another turn. Just another turn. And it was low stakes in that, like, if I lost, I could just start another game. Like Yeah. And that was one that I could just, like, kinda get into and not have to worry about something coming at me and killing me other than, like, turn based, slow coming and killing me.
Lara:So
Josué:I think survive. I get to survive. Because a lot of the the stuff that's happening also is
Lara:I don't is automated? I can't I can't
Link:I can't cosign because I don't think any game that has that much UI on screen
Lara:can be cozy. It's it's too much. But for me, I'm just like Yeah.
Josué:For me.
Lara:Click click click next turn. Done. Well
Josué:and and, like, you're setting things in motion. Right? And then Yeah.
Link:No. I mean, I'm thinking of, like, remembering watching my friend in high school play Final Fantasy
Josué:14 or 11. 11?
Link:Yeah. The MMO. But basically being able, like, you can set it up where it's like, you just press the forward button and all the things just go off on their own. But visually, like, there's nothing calming about what's happening on the screen.
Josué:If you watch well, you've watched a professional Starcraft player, is that's an that's impressive. It's impressive. But I do I do like that aspect of games like Civ where you're like, oh, go go farm stuff for me or go build a building, you know, and then, go attack and then go defend. I think that's why I like tower defense a lot because it's like, I'm just setting things up, and then the bad guys are coming, but the towers are doing their thing. And I'm just kinda managing and and updating as it goes as we go on, and you could slow it down so it's not too too hectic.
Josué:And lately, I've been playing auto battlers where, basically, we're just building up the characters and then sending them out to do stuff. And I do link. And you
Link:just tap tap tap.
Josué:Oh, yeah.
Link:A couple of tap taps.
Josué:Yeah. And yeah. It's like, oh, I built up this character. I'm just gonna send them out. I built up this team.
Josué:I'm gonna send them out. That is that is something that I like. And even just watching, it's like kinda watching the spectacle of it. But again, that feels very low stakes.
Link:It's something about just watching, like, your bar go up and their bar go down. It's like, yeah, that's my gamer brain loves that. That's great. I love to see that.
Josué:It's
Link:Number go up.
Josué:It's it's fun. Mhmm. I I've been playing I haven't played it in a in a few months, but I was playing Final Fantasy 16. And it's so funny we've referenced four or five different Final Fantasy. Fantasy 16 has an option where basically you just hold down the attack button and the main character will just go off.
Josué:And he just does his thing. And for me, that is so satisfying. I'm just because it is a show. Like, it's just putting on a show. And I'm going through this story.
Josué:And I'm just like watching this spectacle and then watching the cut scenes and going through. And I sometimes that's all that's all I wanna do. I just wanna play a movie.
Lara:Seven rebirth has the same kind of thing where you can just, like, hold down the attack button and go, go, go, go, go. There's some, like, limits to it. But I was also thinking there's a mini game within it. They created a card game, Queen's Blood in the game. And that seems kinda cozy.
Lara:It's very easy, simple to play. Yeah. Actually, most other Final Fantasy games, I've hated whatever side card game or board game or whatever they've made for that game. This one I actually like a lot. It's a lot of fun.
Josué:Cool. Alright. So so I mean, we're talking about cozy for us, but there is still that marketing term. And link when I asked you for recommendations. Did you were you
Link:Wait, before before we go into the ones that you tested, I do want to just I thought of another Yes. Game type. The oh, no. Oh,
Lara:no. Oh, no.
Josué:You interrupted my flow. What? You didn't have your flow.
Link:Power washer simulator. Oh my god. Mhmm. Power washer simulator. I got there.
Link:Oh. Yeah. Boy, it's gummy in my brain cogs. Yeah. I shouldn't have swallowed all that gum.
Link:Power washer simulator. There's there is something that is soothing about cleaning a thing. However, I do wanna say I have not played power washer simulator, but I have played viscera cleanup detail, which is the same kind of game where you are cleaning up, like, the sets of other types of video games, and it's covered in, like, monster pieces and blood splatters and acid. And you have to, like, mop it up and and wash the floors and clean up everything and burn all the bodies. It's it's the same gameplay style, but, like, a darker facade on the front of it.
Link:But I did find, like, the process of playing that game was very soothing, cozy. I do think there's something very interesting about the cozy game term getting attached to games that simulates, like, domestic labor processes, cleaning, cooking, moving furniture around. Like, we, you know, we touched on The Sims, like, all of that stuff. I feel like there is definitely something in in the idea of using cozy game as a marketing term the way that that is gendered, I think is is a an interesting conversation we don't need to have right now. Something to touch on think about process.
Lara:That that makes sense. Like, when Kayla when I went to go visit Kayla to go to the Taylor Swift concert, like, beforehand, we were she had just downloaded House Flipper, and, like, we were just chilling and vibing, like, cleaning cobwebs out of the corners of things and trying to figure out where the furniture, like where the tile was gonna go and like trying to find all the spots of the dirt so that we could move on to designing things. And it was just it was I did not picture myself wanting to play that game. And now, I can see myself getting that game for free on PlayStation Plus. Someday.
Lara:Yeah.
Josué:Whenever people say that they that like Super Mario Sunshine is not a good Mario game. I'm
Link:like, wrong. Are you kidding? False.
Josué:Don't you remember cleaning up the oil with the that and and I and I think back on that was one of my favorite things to do. We just and
Link:I loved walking around what Delfino Square? No. Delfino Islands and just spraying the guys, clean them off. Yeah. Stealing their bananas, you know, normal stuff.
Josué:Yeah. So You do it as as like as like, you were like, using it like a jet pack, and you could still clean, you could clean with them. There was someone yeah. But there there was something like that's power wash simulator. Like, that's what it is.
Josué:It's that you're just spraying stuff off. As far as cleaning goes, that is something that I like to do. In in Puerto Rico, it's very common. It's where I live. Like, like, you would hose down the living room floor, like, the whole house.
Josué:Like, that was just how how you did it. And it's like like, there's something very satisfying also. I mean, and if you're power washing, like, a like, a garage or a or a sidewalk, there's this guy on TikTok that I'll just like watch the whole video of him. Yes. Power washing my entire yeah.
Josué:But anything else, cleaning wise, absolutely not. I I hate it. There's no in in a game where I have to do that unless it's something like overcooked or unpacked where it's just comedic and it's just hilarious and you're just like throwing stuff and, you know, then fine. But if it's realistic, I I that for me is not cozy. Yeah.
Josué:It's not cozy at all for me.
Lara:I just thought about another cozy game that
Josué:Cozy for you?
Lara:Not cozy for me. Oh, Cozy cozy for Nina.
Josué:Oh, okay.
Lara:She was really into Nekawitsume. Yeah. And now there's a a rabbit one that she's very excited where she collects bunny rabbits and can, like, play with them and leave toys out for them and feed them.
Josué:Okay.
Lara:She loves it. And there's a little mini game where, like, the bunny goes and hides and you have to find it.
Josué:Okay.
Lara:It's pretty cute.
Josué:Okay. So what I was gonna get at before was I asked for recommendations and link you you suggested games.
Lara:I did.
Josué:So now so so when you gave those recommendations, was that based on the marketing term? Was that based on they're cozy for you? Did you think they would be cozy for me?
Link:Yes to all three of those answers. I think I leaned more into, like, the the marketing aesthetic term side of cozy game. I did offer some that I personally find cozy. But I okay. Can I be honest?
Link:I when you brought brought this up, I was like, all I'm gonna wanna do is argue about what the definition of cozy game is. And so I I didn't think about what games I thought you would find cozy because I was trying to get you to the same place where I am where it's like that term doesn't have a whole lot of weight.
Josué:I I think we started there. Right?
Lara:Yeah. So sorry.
Link:Very quickly got you on that page with me. Yeah. But yeah. Yes.
Josué:So so so again, like, with these games,
Link:like Okay. Okay. So for our listeners, the games that I suggested recommended as cozy games, unpacking, A Short Hike, any of the Katamari games, Donut County, Spiritfarer, Ooblets, and Pokemon Snap. Those are the ones that I brought up. For me, I find Pokemon Snap and Unpacking and A Short Hike were all cozy games for me.
Link:Okay. But the other ones, I wouldn't I would not count as cozy games for me.
Josué:You wouldn't count Donut County or Spiritfarer, Oobleeds.
Link:Donut Donut County is definitely closer. Spiritfarer, I don't I I don't know. I feel I feel like because the topic is about death and grief and loss that while there are absolutely comforting like, there's a there's a dedicated hug button, which for me is huge. I've been playing Helldivers two recently. It has a hug in it.
Link:So maybe Helldivers is a cozy game.
Josué:I was gonna ask you about that.
Link:Yeah. Hugging. I think because the game is trying to get you to think about death and dying, that trying to get people to engage with that requires a certain level of discomfort because everything in our culture tells us not to engage with it in that way.
Lara:So it could be cozy in the way that apparently Baldur's Gate is cozy. I think Because on the on the boat, you could have nothing but like going fishing Yeah. Gardening.
Link:It has all of the it has all of the pieces of a cozy game. It's just for me, the the Mhmm. Theming and the narrative focus engages me in a way that I don't think fits with the cozy
Lara:Watching game how, like, hard my friend was crying because I got so far into Spirit Faire and then another shiny new game caught my eye. But watching my friend, like, ugly cry over the game, not so cozy. Not so cozy. But it could be pieces of it could be cozy. I wouldn't define Katamari as a cozy game.
Link:Yeah. So it's like that thing is like, aesthetically, is it like that is a defining aesthetic visually the way that Katamari looks and how that has rippled out into thousands of other games. But it's got timers. It's got pumped up music that kicks up. I get I my my blood pressure goes up when the king is mocking me for not having a big enough abusive father.
Lara:Yeah. Like, all of
Link:those pieces. Like, that's not that's not cozy. Yeah. But it is it is absolutely a game that I've turned to as being like, need something to, like, put my brain into that's not whatever is going on in my actual life. That distraction side again.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Josué:I remember I think we did a we we talked about Donut County on an old episode of head shots.
Lara:We did.
Josué:We played it. I have I'm not far enough into spirit fairer where it deals with death in a way that feels heavy. Like, I'm a couple hours into it, and it is just I'm, like, wanting to get to that part of of, like, the heaviness of it, and it it hasn't gotten there. So it's a it's an interesting game. But I've I've played I played everything or revisited everything you mentioned except Ooblets and Pokemon Snap.
Josué:Although I played another game that's like Pokemon Snap, but kind of in a way like a photography game called Toem, just pretty good. That was a lot of fun. I think A Short Hike, like, might be like my favorite game of all time. It may be recency bias, but it was it was like
Link:I'm so happy you enjoyed it.
Josué:Yay. It was it was just so so good. It was it was comfortable in the best way. 10 out of 10 for me. Like, again, recency bias, but right now it feels like, is this is this my favorite game?
Josué:Is this the best game I've ever played? Or maybe that's just what I needed at at the time, but it was it was really good. Yeah. Katamari, felt the same everything you both talked about. Like, it's like, I'm just rolling around, it's like, it's not nothing about it is smooth.
Josué:It's so janky. And the moment you're, like, rolling and you just, like, knock into something and then your father is mocking you in the timer.
Lara:And you're having to turn and it's impossible to turn exactly how you wanna turn.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is not cozy for me. Tonet County, I don't know that I would call it cozy.
Josué:It was it was it was fun because of the narrative and how quirky it was.
Link:I like that game. It's got it's that's got
Josué:It's good. Yeah. It's got
Link:a lot of character.
Josué:It sure does. Yeah. And then unpacking. What do you like about unpacking, Link? I'm I'm I'm I'm curious.
Josué:Like, I I know, but like, I wanna I wanna hear you say it.
Link:I, one, really thought that the way unpacking had its narrative unfold The storytelling is amazing. Fantastic.
Josué:Yep. Super smart.
Link:So clever. As a person who has moved a lot of times in my life, I think the aspect of taking things out of boxes and getting to put them up on shelves the way that is, like, new and and this fresh space and getting to decide where everything goes, that activated a part in my brain that happens in real life when I get to, like, reorganize my bookshelf because I got, you know, another book and it's just a little bit too tall to fit on the shelf next to the ones I wanna put it next to. So I gotta take all of them off and reorganize them so that it looks just like that that organization thing is very comforting to me, I think because of my history of having to like, the packing up part is really emotionally fraught and awful. But the unpacking part is like, I'm in the space I'm supposed to be in, I get to nest again. And that is that is a homey feeling for me, that the game did a really good job activating.
Link:I do, however, understand why you did not enjoy it the same way. Why why did you Well, no. No. I want I want you to I want you to explain it. But when I recommended it to you, I was like, Okay,
Josué:there's multiple things. One, to give props for, again, the way that it tells the story.
Link:Lara, have
Josué:you played Uncocking?
Lara:Should we be
Link:more specific
Lara:about this? I have it. I have not played it yet.
Josué:I think It's it's a it's a game where literally all you do is unpack Unpack boxes. But every chapter or level is at a different point in the main in the character's life. And so there's a year and you are unpacking into your room, and then you progress through time. And every time you're unpacking boxes in different places, And you can tell without a story, without a voice over, without anything, but, like, a snapshot and a and a caption at the end of a chapter that it's like, oh, shit. Like, we're in college now or like, we're moving in with somebody it's like, it did not work out and we're moving out.
Lara:It's
Josué:a house now like, oh, there's, we're a family moving back home like things like that so you're, you're progressing through time, through this person's life, through those moments specifically of unpacking boxes. I thought that was really smart. Okay. So this game was so activating for me. One, because I'm packing up right now to move.
Josué:Right? And the hardest part about packing is that I don't know where I'm going to unpack this stuff. And so I have to decide there's a lot of stuff where I'm like, I need to throw this stuff out because there's I don't don't have anywhere to put it. Remember, I've I know that I've said on this podcast many times, and either of you, like, just as my friends have heard me say this for years, I'm like, books? Like, no, I gotta go digital everything because, like, you're not gonna lug boxes around.
Josué:Like, where are gonna put all this stuff? Right? And for the last couple of years, I fell into a trap where, like, now I have a lot of physical things. And I thought that was cool. And now that I have to move again, I'm like, I was so stupid.
Josué:I was right. I was I was right the first time. So the the thought of having of going through that while I'm simultaneously packing was painful to do, but it was also a good reflection on to be clear, this game was not cozy whatsoever, and I'm explaining why it wasn't cozy. Right? That was one part.
Josué:Another part that I hate was that as the game progresses, there's always more and more boxes. And like, I already hate doing this and it was just more and more of it. That part I I I was uncomfortable for me. Again, I'm not saying it's a bad game. I'm saying it was a bad experience for me.
Lara:That's like someone trying to recommend a laundry, like, folding simulator to me. I hate it. I would not play it.
Josué:I I don't know how many pennies I put into drawers in this game. Okay? Okay. And and this is one of the things that bothered me. I got to a point where and you said this link, you were like, oh, putting things where they're supposed to go.
Josué:That the fact that something is supposed to go somewhere goes so much against my values as a as a person. So it actually has so this is props to the game. It has an accessibility feature where you can turn that off. So so then you can put things anywhere because otherwise, you can't move forward in the chapter if you don't put that toothbrush in the right place or you don't put, you know, all the panties in the in the drawers, like, out of here. So I really appreciated that feature because that was that bothered me.
Josué:I'm like, it's my house. Let me put it wherever the hell I want. I wanna put the plants over here. I wanna put the light over here. Me put I
Link:don't Let me put the cooking pots inside the oven. I'm not using it right now. Let me do it. Exactly.
Lara:Come on. Exactly.
Josué:I'm never gonna wash dishes with a dishwasher.
Lara:That's it.
Josué:It's not what it's for.
Link:It's not what it's for?
Josué:Yeah. So that there was there was that. And then the final thing that just it just made it a bad experience for me was that I felt that it was romanticizing consumerism and the accumulation of stuff. So much so that, like, again, like, I I could tell what it's doing. It's like, oh, keep this old thing.
Josué:Right? And, like, just keep accumulating new stuff, and now we have more stuff, and now it's their stuff and our stuff. That's so cool. Right? It's like, oh, and I'm like, fucking stuff.
Josué:And then the thing that made it the worst was that when you finish the game, it actually has a song that says the words of like, now your stuff combined with my stuff and we're together. And I was like, woah. I just I just get it. I I've never deleted a game so fast off of my off of my my Steam Deck. Oh, that was a painful experience.
Josué:But because I am a scientist, I played all the way through and I took notes.
Link:Proud of you.
Lara:And there are other people who would find that message very sweet and would love the game.
Josué:I'm not talking about other people. I'm talking about my experience and how horrible it was and how much I suffered. But through pain is the only way that we can grow as people. But I will never
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:Not talk shit about this game and the messaging that it that it that it that it it pushes its agenda. Mhmm. Capitalist propaganda. Yeah. I can't.
Josué:I can't. I can't. I can't.
Link:I will say it's like it's internally consistent in the story that it told that that is the message that it ends with. Like, that makes sense. But also, I agree with you. It is it is ultimately pro consumerism. Oh, yeah.
Josué:That song at the end killed me. Oh, yeah. Not cozy for me. But I can but again, I can understand what you were saying about like, it I did enjoy like, oh, I have multiple drawers, this is going to be my panning drawer. And that's where I put on my pan, and I even like, you know, turn them so they would all face That's the same fine.
Josué:But it wasn't it wasn't fine the third time or the fourth time. There were more and more panties every time.
Link:Yeah. And that's unrealistic.
Lara:That's unrealistic. That one's unrealistic. Unless it's a lesbian couple, then it's
Link:fuck, Lara. I love you so much. Oh, you just you just you
Lara:just did the I didn't really laugh that much today.
Link:Just you just did the aliens over the shoulder no look dunk shot, and you didn't even know it. That's yum. Beautiful.
Josué:Based on like two clues. Yeah. Yeah. Not cozy.
Link:Yes.
Josué:But
Link:Yes. So my my thought process for that is I knew you weren't going to enjoy your experience because of what is going on in your life right now. That context completely reframes the way it is going on and how you interact with it. I was like, oh.
Josué:It's funny because when it started, I was like, oh, this is a good reflection. I'm like, what should I pack? Because eventually, I have to unpack. I was like, oh, this is great. By, like, the third chapter, I was just like, almost breaking my steam deck in half.
Josué:It's it's funny. I am
Lara:The game is not worth breaking your Steam Deck, Josue. That that actually needs to come with you when you move. So
Josué:I mean, you know, I don't know.
Link:Yeah. I feel like the the takeaway should be, like, I should definitely label my boxes. Yeah.
Josué:That I mean, again, like, the storytelling is so smart in that game. I mean, I just I'd like I I do I do wanna like, at the beginning, like, her shoes are in different boxes, but, like, at the end, like, you know, like
Link:She she got she got better at it.
Lara:Got you realize, hey. Maybe I should label my boxes.
Josué:The bathroom stuff goes in the bathroom. The kitchen stuff goes in the kitchen.
Lara:Now anyone who moves and has a ton of shit to move, as Nina and I have done a couple of times now, you do that in the beginning, and then there's a panic moment toward the end. We literally have a box from two moves ago that says random stuff from coffee table where we literally put the box and swept the coffee table into the box because you learn, but then also there's the reality. So.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah.
Lara:Yeah. We should probably just throw that box. Haven't seen any of that stuff in
Link:It's technically a time capsule now is what it is. You keep it and open it in thirty more years.
Josué:Well, I mean, to kind of just to to kind of start wrapping up the that game was not cozy. It activated me more than I was trying to do the opposite. Was trying
Lara:cozy palate cleanser after that?
Josué:I was trying to relax.
Link:But but got me thinking a game where you just get to go into a house and burn everything down. And the game's like firework, firework, firework. You burned everything. Good job. You're the best arsonist.
Lara:There's a game called kill it with fire.
Josué:There's a there's a game on my wish list where you play different kind of what are they called like Godzilla monsters? Kaiju. Different types of Kaiju. Just tear through cities. Yeah.
Josué:No. It's it's different, but it's like you're just you're just tearing down cities. That sounds great to me. That sounds great. But there are games that that do the opposite.
Josué:Right? They're like, I cannot play because they they stress me out, whether it's the theme or like, you know
Link:The scary sound effects that the monster makes.
Josué:Exactly. Exactly.
Lara:Exactly. Gonna make the sound, Joseline.
Josué:Thank you. But, like, bullets flying and things like that. And some of that has to do with, you know I mean, it could be a whole bunch of different things, but it there's definitely a spectrum. And I think, again, like, there's something about a short hike definitely in a few other games that that I can think of over time. Again, thinking back to Animal Crossing, you're right.
Josué:There is, like, an aesthetic piece to it, but there is this no stakes or low stakes piece to it. I joked about there's no fall damage. There's usually fishing. Right? It's like, there are these there are these certain things where I I I get it.
Josué:But, also, I I think it was a good callout from from the beginning that cozy games doesn't mean anything. And it's very much about, like, what is you know, your personal experience with different games can help you get to that. I don't think that the cozy terminology was helpful for me in in really finding that. And I think it goes back to more I think there is an aesthetic component to it, but a lot of it has to do for me with the how easy it is in one in one way. Because, like, if it's simple and I can kind of just move and things are happening, right, like, I can't I don't wanna just be like, I played what is it called?
Josué:A sea of thieves, and that that is not, like, a cozy game. But, like, oh, you're just on the water, you know, like, that like, then nothing's happening. Right? And and that's different than kind of moving through a world where where things are simple enough and there's enough to entertain you or or occupy your time, but nothing is too difficult. Nothing is extremely far.
Josué:The hints aren't, you know, like, nothing is super cryptic. The puzzle isn't incredibly difficult, and it's kinda fun. And that can be a lot of different games and depending on the mood that you're in. Right? Like, I loved Monster Hunter.
Josué:Remember when I was obsessed with Monster Hunter? Mhmm. That was just hard. That is just so so hard. And there was there was an amazing feeling about, like, again, the same thing we've talked about Bloodborne and Dark Souls and Elden Ring and what that kind of game provides, which is very cozy for for some people, but for different reasons.
Josué:Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. So I don't know what is my go to game or what games I would go to.
Lara:You know what I've
Link:been thinking about lately? Wander Song.
Josué:You know, have I've I I have Wander Song on my Steam Deck, and it's always there because I'm like, one day I'm gonna need it. Right? And I think I think Wander Song is very much in the it's actually kinda gameplay wise. It's kinda similar to Spiritfarer. Right?
Josué:In the way, like, Spiritfarer reminds me of Wandersong, but it but Wandersong has the kinda like the personality, more of the personality of, like, a short hike or the smooching game that I that I that I played. It's a different tone, but it is yeah. Wandersong is is pretty good.
Lara:I just thought of a game a client actually recommended to me. I love when clients recommend games to me, because they know this is the kind of stuff I like to think about and like to talk about. Chicory, a colorful tale. You literally have a magic paintbrush, and it's like a coloring page, and you color different parts of the screen, basically. Haven't gotten so far into the game, because as I said, bigger, shinier things come along.
Lara:So the cozy games don't really hold me for too long. But so I don't know what the narrative gets to be at a certain point. But it was really nice just to when I had a few minutes, like, a client cancels, sit on my computer because I have it on Steam, just kinda do some coloring, wander around with my cute little animals, like, painting the screen. It's nice.
Josué:Yeah. I don't I don't know if I if do you guys think that it's possible to do, like, emotional regulation calming through a video game?
Lara:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Link:I can even
Lara:Whether it's intentional or not. I can even
Link:offer a review paper
Josué:Mhmm.
Link:From the Games for Health Journal, volume seven number two, video games for emotion regulation, a systematic review
Josué:Mhmm.
Link:Which if you don't have access to, steal it. Oh, I'm sorry. But, yeah, there's there there is research that shows that games absolutely have an impact on emotion regulation.
Josué:Yeah. It's like it's complicated because the stuff that
Lara:I look at as
Link:well more It to do with the person than the game. Like, the game the game mechanics matter, but it is more about the individual, like, what what they are bringing to it and what works for their central nervous system.
Josué:Maybe I'm maybe I'm overcomplicating it. But because, like, I understand the piece of like, as a distraction, it can be extremely effective at doing that. Because it because video games can be engaging, it can be distracting in a way that's not like stressful. Mhmm. Right?
Josué:So I get that. But there's still like this other piece again, that maybe I'm overthinking of just like the calming piece of it without being just a distraction.
Link:I think that's the aspect that is more internalized to the player than the game. And that that's one of the things that they talk about in in the review is that they were looking at just general, you know, games that are released, AAA games and stuff like that versus games that are made by scientists with the intention to like, this is a we made a game to do this emotion regulation thing that we are measuring. And almost always, the general game is more engaging in a way and therefore it has bigger outcomes for the players.
Josué:Yep.
Lara:Yeah. And I think we've talked about, between the three of us, it's very different what causes us to be activated or more relaxed. And you think about a certain game, the music alone could help regulate somebody in a way that brings them down.
Link:I didn't mention this earlier, but I was thinking it. Dooms 2016, like, that is it's it's brutal, shooting them up, demons and everything. But the, like, the way that the music picks up as you are moving through the space feels so good that my body's like, this is the chillest I've ever been. I'm having such a lovely relaxing afternoon.
Lara:Pretty much any Final Fantasy soundtrack will get me like, I've literally bought back when I bought CDs, I would buy the soundtrack and play it to, like, calm down and go to sleep when I was younger. But I can't remember whether it was tags one or two, but Hilary Andriff did a presentation on using games and emotion regulation, I believe, and talked a lot about music in games. So that was pretty cool.
Josué:It's funny you said music that can make you fall asleep. I have intrusive sleep, which is like a nervous system response.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:My my brain runs away from stuff. So I did actually fall asleep playing unpacking. Like, my brain was so It's like my brain was like
Link:This is so un cozy. I'm turning off. Why? I'm shutting making
Josué:me do this. It's like, either turn it off or I'm turning you off. And it my brain turned me off.
Lara:It it flipped the kill switch.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. But I I I bring that up in the sense that, like, being like, I can I can be dysregulated to sleep? Mhmm.
Josué:Or, you know, it's like, nope. It's like a like a short circuit, kind of. Like, no, it's too much too much power. Let's turn turn it off. Oh, yeah.
Josué:Okay. Okay. So final just one recommendation before we go.
Link:If you're not currently packing up your life unpacking is a cool game. But a short I think a short hike is something that everybody should play. It's short. It's accessible. It's good stuff.
Link:Yeah.
Lara:Yeah. Other like, I can't think of any more than the ones I've named, but Yeah. I think
Josué:As a wrap up.
Lara:Recency buyer bias. I think an actual cozy game, Chicory Colorful Tales is a good one. Just walking around coloring, I think it's good.
Josué:Yep. And I really did like A Short Hike. I think it's I think it's perfect. Think it's really good.
Lara:Yeah.
Josué:But if I were to recommend a game, a different one, Again, I'm, like, so torn about this, but I think yeah. We've talked about it in the past, but I I think Animal Crossing has to be, like, one of the it's just it's just chill in all the right ways. And it does kinda keep going if you need it to. Whereas, like, a short hike was perfect. It was, like, at the beginning, middle, and boom.
Josué:Like, it gave me what I needed. But Animal Crossing, you can keep going back to in a different way. It'll change and it'll give you different things. I think yeah.
Link:Stardew Valley just put out a new update. So there's a ton of new content. If that is a game that you find cozy, you should you should check out that stuff.
Josué:I want to play co op. I've never played co op.
Link:Also not played
Lara:co op.
Josué:I stopped playing. I played hours and hours before the co op.
Link:I got so frustrated with the fishing mini game. When I first played Stardew Valley, I didn't I only played a couple of in game weeks. I don't even think I made it through the first season or just barely, but I a similar type of game, slime rancher. I did put more time into that. And the sequel, Slime Rancher two, was pretty fun.
Link:Very cute. Love cute little slimes.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. I feel I feel okay about this conversation.
Lara:Yeah. I think ultimately, Yeah.
Link:You are looking for, like, your cozy game, thinking about games that you've played before that have, you know, brought up those, like, comforting, soft, warm feelings and thinking about what kinds of game mechanics you were doing. And then using that as a way to find games that will hit that for you rather than googling cozy game and getting that wired article.
Josué:Yeah, I feel so so about the conversation because of how I set it up. Because I think the emotional regulation piece does not actually align with the idea of cozy. Yeah. Because, like, when you described at the beginning, Lara, like, oh, something that just makes me wanna, like, curl up and, you know, cuddle up with and and with the game. I'm like, I don't know I don't know if that's like would that is that what would calm me down, you know?
Josué:And I think there are other things. There's like a joy aspect to it that might be what I need at a different time. Like, oh, I just played a game where this where it does something similar. Now I don't remember what it was, but remember Nino Kuni? Nino Kuni has this thing where like, when a person is sad, you need to go like get some happiness from somebody else or when somebody's feeling anxious, you need to go get some courage from somebody else.
Josué:I feel like the emotional regulation piece, it's like a it's like a wheel with opposing, right? Like to to to fix this one, need to add its opposite and different games can do that. And I don't think the term cozy is actually helpful. No. Alright.
Josué:Well, thank you for listening. Let us know how you feel about unpacking. And in our in any of our community spaces, you can find links to those in the show notes. You can find more geek therapy at geektherapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good.
Josué:We'll be back next week.
Link:Bye.
Josué:Geek Therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.
