Coping with Late Stage Capitalism Through Post-Apocalyptic Media
Actually, for that, you do the intro, Marc. Fuck you.
Marc:Oh, god. Oh, golly gee. I forgot the intro. Oh my god.
Lara:Please leave this in, Marc.
Marc:Probably will. Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Mark Cuiriz, and I am joined by Link Keller.
Link:Hello.
Marc:Lara Taylor.
Lara:Hey.
Marc:And Josué Cardona.
Josué:Yep.
Marc:Hey. Hey. So you threw me into this doing the intro, and all I really know is today actually, you
Marc:know what? Link, what are we talking about?
Link:You're gonna throw it to me.
Josué:No. No. No. What are we talking about? What are we talking about?
Josué:Nobody wants to talk about.
Link:Nobody knows what we're talking about. Guess that episode's over.
Marc:Man, no one no one no one here wants to talk about talk about some some great post nuclear apocalyptic worlds.
Josué:So I I wanna set some context for this, which is that I think this is like, we're gonna talk about the fallout franchise. But just like in general, like, maybe you've never heard of fallout. Maybe you've only watched the show. Maybe you're not very familiar with it. We're gonna we're gonna kind of dissect it and look at a whole bunch of different pieces of it.
Josué:And Lara, I think you've told me, you've told us that clients have brought it up recently. So I I I'd love to start kind of there, like, which in what context have they brought up the show or the games, whichever piece of it they've talked about?
Lara:Well, a lot of it has to do with, like, well, the show came out and most people that I know, and most people of my client that are my clients are nerds. Most of my clients are nerds. So they all watched Fallout, and I did as well. And so the first thing that most of my clients is we're doing a little warm up getting into the session. She's like, oh, what have you been watching recently?
Lara:What have you been playing recently? Rather than just like, how's the weather? That's our question. And everybody that I've talked to has had something to say about this. Many of them have said it's inspired them to go back and play games, and it's interesting seeing who wants to go back and play which games, because there's a whole lot of games they could choose to go back to.
Lara:I mean, some of my clients who are in a very stressy and depressy kind of mood, like many of us are about the state of the world, like to dive into the themes of capitalism and mutually assured self destruction, and and all these things. Yeah. I've been talking a lot about a lot of depressing things. But damn was that show good and and and sometimes funny. I love it.
Lara:The game's funny sometimes too, even for such a such a big thing that I'm like, that could have been us. That could be us.
Josué:So so so what are the emotions, like, other than the the, like, transmedia aspect of it of, oh, I like the TV show. I wanna go play the game. I wanna go back dive dive into some other version of it. What feelings were were, like, coming up for people?
Lara:Anger. Lots of anger. Lots of fear. Tell me about the fear. Anxiety about the future.
Josué:About the future.
Lara:And and, I mean, it gets into, like, oh, what happens if we all blow each other up with nuclear bombs? What will the world look like? And like, looking at late stage capitalism, and how a
Josué:lot of
Lara:my clients are very tired, and have realized that they're not gonna have a whole lot of opportunities in the world with regards to savings and retirement, and they don't have a lot of means in that way. So the end the show definitely highlights that and the games highlight that too.
Josué:Right. So so the show is really about a girl woman looking for her dad. Mhmm. But it's
Lara:girl. Just a girl next door in the next vault room over.
Josué:Yeah. But the world is is what's interesting. Right? There's been multiple games there. So for for if you're not super familiar with Fallout, it is set in a future after a lot of nuclear explosions happen.
Josué:The reasons why were the reasons why explained in the games in the way that they were explained in the series? No. No. Right? Okay.
Josué:Okay.
Link:The show the show provided some of that that insight is the the first sort of like confirmations of that kind of information. There's been hints in all of the games, but majority of the information you're getting about the world is from the perspective of the people inhabiting it who don't have a broader understanding of what's going on. So it's very much like I noticed this thing that happened right in front of me. And from that you have to be able to infer a much larger story.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. So in the so so what we're told is, basically, companies, corporations have a large part of, or even benefit from the destruction of the world countries are just everybody's nuking each other, and the world goes to shit afterwards. And then there's this wasteland, but there are some people who are in their bunkers, in their shelters, sheltered from what's happening outside and in every no, not every game, but in almost every game, you play as someone who is living in the vault and is leaving for the first time and goes out into that world. Right.
Josué:Right? Right? But you The only one that doesn't Almost there's two, right, that don't have someone who was a vault dweller? Yeah. Think Vegas doesn't have a Vault Dweller.
Josué:I think Fallout two doesn't have a Vault Dweller either.
Marc:I think Fallout two is like four. So I think Fallout two I think it's like a descendant or something of, like, the first protagonist. Gotcha. Something something along those lines. I watched
Josué:Okay.
Marc:I watched a video that was kind of explaining, like, the lore in each of the games. Mhmm.
Josué:And I
Marc:think that's what they said, but I I could be wrong.
Josué:Okay. My memory is garbage.
Link:I am I am I'm asking for confirmation. I am referencing the Wikipedia page, and you are correct.
Josué:Thank you.
Link:The player character is a direct descendant of the vault dweller referred to as the chosen one.
Josué:Cool. Mhmm. Alright. So your so your clients are talking about being nervous about the future, which I understand.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:Because the show touches on not only I mean, I don't I don't do do any of you have let let me go back. Decades ago, there were and multiple times in history, there were the the fear of a nuclear war was, like, it was, like, on the news. Right? It was like, oh, we're we're we're almost there. We're threatening each other with with nukes.
Josué:Do any of you ever feel that kind of fear? Lara, especially you since you're the oldest one. Maybe you were around back when.
Lara:I remember I remember I can't remember how long ago it was, but there was the whole thing with North Korea, one threatening to shoot nuclear weapons our way. And it was interesting because I would talk to my dad and I'd be like, dad, are you nervous? And he's like, no, I'm not nervous yet. And I'm like, okay, you tell me when you are because that's when I'm going to be scared because he did live through all of that. And the duck and cover, like, we watched those videos in in, like, high school as, like, a history lesson.
Lara:Like, the videos they used to show kids, like, duck and cover, hide under your desk, make sure that the so the nuclear fallout isn't gonna get you. And I'm like, that's very different from the the story in the in the show about your thumb. And you hold your thumb up. And if the the cloud is smaller than your thumb, you better start running. And if it's bigger than your thumb, you're shrewd.
Lara:So no, there's a little nervousness, but no genuine fear about that. He said, who knows now? Everybody's like, I don't know. The world is the world is scary.
Josué:Yeah. Have either of you, Link or Mark, ever worried about that? Is that on your many on your long list of anxieties? Does it break your top 50?
Marc:No. I am I mean, I I there is like Laura said, there is a lot of concerns, especially with today's conflicts and a lot of other things kinda happening in the world. But, I mean, quite honestly, like, I don't really I don't really think I'd be that scared or that nervous because I mean, if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. So, like, you know, I'm here for a good time, not a long time. I will either turn into a ghoul or I'm just gonna be absolutely yeah.
Marc:I'm just gonna be a nice either skeleton or or I'll just be a nice little graffiti art. It really depends. Either way, like, it's it's just the way it is. So, like, I mean, if it's if it happens, it's gonna happen. No.
Marc:No. To me, I don't really see a sense in, like, trying to be terrified of it because to be scared of it, to me, it it almost feels like I would need to have, like, some way of being able to control that or, like, I'm in a way playing a part in that. But in this case, it's like, I have absolutely no control in this, and I really don't think the government is going to inform us of these set things until it is in the midst of actually happening. I'm like, oh, hey. By the way, guys, there are bombs heading our way.
Marc:You better duck and cover. So, like
Link:That's that's funny. Yeah. I feel I feel similarly in that it it is decidedly not a natural disaster, but it fits into that that same category of, you know, earthquake volcano going off tornado, like those things as like, yeah, if I if I think about it, like that's a scary situation. We're talking about nukes specifically, for me, I'm way more scared of our government accidentally nuking us than I am of other countries nuking us. So
Lara:Link, you probably have to worry more where you are about a giant earthquake hitting Yeah.
Link:Yeah. So it's like nukes have never been, you know, top three fears. Definitely massive volcano and massive earthquake would be higher than that for me just given my geographic location. But but yeah, even even if you include nukes, it's it's our nukes is scarier to me than anyone else's nukes.
Josué:I'm I'm actually surprised that with all the AI talk, there hasn't been more Skynet conversation. Maybe it's because the more AI AI we use, as impressive as it is, it's also stupider than probably we imagined Mhmm. Which then should scare us even more. I don't know. I'm just surprised that it's not part of the narrative.
Josué:More. Yeah. Okay. No. It makes sense.
Josué:And, I mean, that's a I think it's a healthy way to look at it. If you're working with clients, I mean, you know, why worry about something that you can't you have no control over? It's not not bad.
Lara:Well, and even so for some of my clients, even if it's not nukes specifically that they're worried about, like, there are wars going on right now, and they're scared about that. And like, what that means for the world, even if it's not specifically here. And also, pulls it still pulls on, like Link said, natural disasters. It pulls on those climate change fears and the climate. Yeah.
Lara:Was gonna
Link:say, although the the aesthetic and content of the game is focused on on nuclear waste wastelands, it it the first game came out in '97. And I feel like that is very much, know, late 90s is when we really start seeing the like, climate change is a fucking issue. Why isn't anybody talking about how this is, this is gonna be bad you guys. And so we start seeing that pop up in our media more is like, yes, we're talking about like, oh, they dropped to the bombs and now they live in a town that worships a bomb and look at all the bomb stuff. It's like, yes, but if I look at it, where it's this big wasteland with very little eco diversity, and people are getting sick and dying from the environment itself.
Link:Gosh, that sounds so familiar. Yeah, yeah, was climate change, dog.
Josué:So so one thing that the the games in the in the show don't do is, like, we we we are in the fallout. Right? We're afterwards. So we're not going through that. Right?
Josué:It's like, it's the generation that is suffering from what's left over or in other words, like, after that natural at natural disaster. I'm watching videos of Palestine now. It's like destroyed. I saw a reporter here, so I was like, who's gonna rebuild this? Like, you can't rebuild and you can't fix any of this.
Josué:Right? Like, home, everything is gone. The closest thing I've ever experienced to that was hurricane Maria and coming out to them. I'm like, holy shit. Nothing looks the same way as it did yesterday.
Josué:And I mean, and in that case, like, people immediately started, like, clearing roads and doing things.
Lara:And started rebuilding. Right?
Josué:Yeah. But in the fallout world, right, it's like things are dead. Right? Like, things are gone. There's there's a lot
Lara:skeletons everywhere. Right?
Josué:Yeah. But but, like, just like you're not your your world is completely different. Right? So, like, what happens when all of these things are gone? I think, like, I'm always more concerned and sometimes afraid of the process of losing it all, of the suffering of, like, the exposure to the nuclear waste or to the war or to all the other things.
Josué:This kind of, right, this kind of media bypasses all of that. And then brings
Lara:from the perspective of the ghouls. Right?
Josué:Of the survivors of the people who who a lot of people don't know what was around before. Fallout always happens a couple hundred years after the Fallout.
Link:I mean, that's, that's the thing that's sort of interesting about Fallout is the way that it treats the passage of time because it is supposed to be about two hundred years after the bombs fall is when the games generally take place. And the amount of things that have not changed in that time, one connected to the to the ghouls in that you have people themselves who can maintain society structure and the products and and tools within it. But it's it's so unrealistic to, like, how real world works and is very much focused on the idea of maintaining the aesthetic of what they are are doing in the games of having that futuristic version from the perspective of the fifties. But in our future, and it's it's always in this constant conflict between that that past image and this like future wasteland.
Josué:But are you saying that people like the people are trying to hold on?
Link:I'm saying if you think about like, the ways that human cities in the real world function, and it's like they're like cities have been destroyed before things like natural disasters happen and people rebuild it and communities reform around the context of where they are existing. So the idea that everything would get nuked and everybody be like, yeah, but I really, really need to make sure that we maintain the super duper mart in this pristine condition of super duper martness. And it's like, humans wouldn't do that. They'd be like, there's pieces of this building is still usable. I'm going to use it.
Link:But it doesn't suit the the game's space as much if you don't have all of those funny skeletons that have supposedly been untouched, unmoved for two hundred years with their unopened Coca Cola right there. Excuse me. New Coca Cola right there fresh.
Lara:Which that situation would only happen if there was nobody there to pick over the the things. Right? And if everybody put it in the vault and they came upstairs and then there was nothing. Yeah.
Link:Right? But because the the world itself already establishes ghouls, we have a contradiction already happening in there.
Lara:Yeah. But one of the things
Link:that I really love about Fall out and I started playing my first Fallout game was Fallout three, I got very obsessed for with that one for a long time. But one of the things I do really appreciate about appreciate about it is that it is very campy. And so that aspect of the lack of realism in the ways that the world changes over two hundred years and the way that the social groups changes over two hundred years, very unrealistic, but Fitz camp is very campy and it nails that. So I'm glad that the show kept some of that stuff. It's like even though it's like logically this doesn't make any sense.
Link:But it's it's fun. It's fun and funny.
Josué:Yeah. I've never thought too deeply about any of this. Like, there's still a lot of radiation. It's like, people aren't
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:As healthy. A lot of the resources that you would use to rebuild are contaminated. Don't have like, I don't know. I'm just trying to think, right, like, how far back does that set you? How much can you repurpose and how much can you like, would you try to salvage?
Josué:Yeah. I haven't I haven't thought much about that. So so I get I get some of the fears, Lara. And then what are some of the things that your clients are angry about or that they've brought up?
Lara:I mean, if we're going in full spoilers for the show, right, like, the concept that the companies did it to everybody and blew themselves up well, not blew themselves up, but blew everybody up to make a profit. Right? That that is that is the whole
Josué:You're talking about real life. You didn't describe anything.
Lara:I know. It's different. Yeah. I know. Well, we haven't we haven't had a nuclear, like, explosion here right here yet.
Lara:Right? But
Josué:It's a good metaphor. It's a good metaphor. Oh, absolutely. Because, yeah, it's not a nuke, but you can make a long list of all the things that
Lara:Of all the the people who've got it along the way.
Link:If we're if we're using the show specifically, I think there's a lot of really I'm not actually I'm not gonna add in adjectives that there's a lot of ways that you could connect the way that they talk about the dropping the bombs as a business decision and the way that COVID was treated and is treated now. And I mean, I think how easy it would be like, well, yes, vaccines or whatever, but I make money off of body bags. So actually, when we should let this spread around the community a little bit more so I can really make my money's worth on these body bags.
Lara:Mhmm. And imagine like the the conversations that could have happened around like, okay, well, let's, like, I'm imagining a vault tech vault tech was making the vaccines, right? How many people need to die before we don't want everybody to die because we need people to sell the we need the government to buy these vaccines for people, so we don't want everyone to die, but we also want we're we're making these other treatments on this other side and we need people like it's yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Lara:Money. It it's evil.
Josué:Money is the nuke.
Lara:It is the nuke. Right?
Josué:Yeah. No, I mean,
Lara:there's that were and their world was hyper, like, even more capitalistic than our country or our world, right? Like, everything, everything had a, like a company like everything had a sponsorship, everything. We're getting there. We're getting there.
Josué:Naomi Klein has a book. Right? Is it Naomi Klein? I wanna make sure. Right?
Josué:Naomi Klein? The Shock Doctrine Doctrine. Yeah. But it's all about disaster capitalism, which is a which is a term, which is exactly it's not just I mean, it's not just COVID. It's every single I mean, there's a there are businesses that rely entirely
Link:on capitalism requires a class to suffer in order to exist.
Lara:I mean, Jose mentioned Palestine earlier. I'm sure that is definitely going to be a place where a lot of people are like, let us help those
Link:rebuild. That's already happened, dog, dude. Yeah. Israelis were like, we're gonna be buying up beachfront properties. Yep.
Link:Like, oh, are you gonna dig up those corpses first? Or are you just gonna build on top of them?
Josué:Yeah. I mean, I mean, in that whole example, right? I mean, it's it's, like, you're clearing out the land to re to redevelop it and redistribute it. But the like, the disaster capitalism piece, shock doctrine goes into more things like that where it's like, how do we take advantage of a situation, like, a natural disaster? How do we do that to redraw district lines?
Josué:How do we do that to change the education system? Like, there's there are plans in place. Fucking it's it's incredible. But the but the, disaster capitalism piece of oh, there's a are contractors lined up to clear the rubble. Right?
Josué:And those companies are gonna make tons of money because money is going to be allocated for that. Again, I can only the only experience that I know firsthand from my lifetime was in Puerto Rico. And there were
Link:That was my immediate thought too was the all of the stuff coming out about like, these contractors are not equipped to do this kind of job, but because they know a cousin of Joe White guy that they're getting this contract. So
Josué:fucking gross. I'm trying to remember the acronym for the funds. But there was, like, I don't know how many billions of dollars. And then people in Puerto Rico talk about it this way. It's like, oh, shit.
Josué:All of these funds are going to be distributed within the next ten years. It's a gold rush. How do we how do we tap into that? And then the government's just like a request for proposals, like, let me know. What do you wanna do?
Josué:And then like like what you're saying, like, in the news, there would be one guy out of his basement, right? Like won a contract and he's just subcontracting to a bunch of people, but he couldn't actually do it. But a lot of companies are just lined up, right? I mean, and not to mention the weapons manufacturers that are just always doing great. There's a lot of people who profit from the nukes.
Josué:Nukes can be a metaphor for a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah. And it is it is infuriating for sure. So I'm not sure. I'm not surprised your your clients that that brought them up for for your clients.
Lara:I mean, they were already angry and we talk about, like, how the state of the world as it is now a lot, and how it feels like nothing's going to change. But the show somehow made it, I guess, easier for them to talk about. Right?
Josué:Yeah. I mean, it act it activates that part
Lara:of me. Angry at something other than the real world. And it allowed them to be able to talk about how that related to their anger about the real world.
Link:Yeah, that delightful buffer zone of very similar to that word. Such a good word.
Lara:So much easier to say fuck you, Vault Tec. And
Josué:So so there isn't really and help me fill in the gaps here. But there isn't anything like, that's done. You can't really do anything to Vault Tec at this point. Like, in the games, you're not fighting any of the people who caused any of the damage that's happening now. Right?
Josué:It's not when I think about Regan. I can't go and, like, do anything to Regan. I can't
Lara:go to that Regan.
Josué:Know.
Lara:Like, the show, it's like, we should go to Vault 31 and blow that whole thing up. Right?
Josué:Yeah. I guess. Yeah.
Marc:I think And
Josué:and I say this because I I saw something earlier about the feeling and, like, maybe you know terms here better than I do. But they were talking about how movies the the discussion was Amazon funds TV shows and movies that basically put like, they are anti capitalist, and that that it serves it serves them because people like like you said, Lara, like, if you say fuck you, Vault Tec, you kind of feel like you've done something. Mhmm. You didn't do anything in, like, for real, but you had this experience where you're like, oh, yeah. They're bad, whatever.
Josué:And then once the movie's off, like, then you the real world doesn't you feel like you did something. You feel like you were a part of a story where there was a bad guy, a clear bad guy, and then you don't do anything.
Lara:More black and white than it would be in the real world. Yeah.
Josué:No, but it's like this feeling. It's like,
Link:You get the emotional catharsis of fighting against this thing that But does impact you in real because it's being presented to you in this narrative, that you get to experience the emotions of like, I'm the winner, I'm I've succeeded. And that emotion carries forward where that having an outlet for that anger slows action in the real world.
Josué:Which makes it easier for which is less resistance to the same thing that you're seeing in the movie. Yeah. Yeah. The example that we're using was Wally. Right?
Josué:Of, like, the people in the chairs and, like, just being complete zombies. It's like, you're serving that end because you you agree that that's messed up. You have that catharsis and it's like, oh, okay. And then you're you're now you're moving more toward that than than not, which that was depressing when not not just bully but
Link:I mean, in that same vein in the in this broader conversation. I'm a Virgo, which is a Boots Riley show also available on Amazon Prime also with a very strong anti capital giant, right? Yes. Yes, is a one one season series show about a world in which like superpowers are a thing. And they've got a giant black teen, and how he interacts with becoming a part of the world.
Link:It's great. It's a fantastic show, highly recommend it. Walton Goggins is also in it and he's
Josué:so
Link:fantastic. He acts so hard in everything. But it's it's another Yes, the ghoul and fallout. But it is another show that does the same thing where it's like, has a very strong anti capitalist message. And there is a disconnect of watching it.
Link:You seeing the Amazon Prime logo pop up before is like, I'm feeling the disconnect a little bit. But then the show is just so enchanting. You're like, well, now I'm, well, I'm invested. I gotta see what's gonna happen next. So it's it's it's an interesting experience.
Josué:You're paying one of the biggest companies in the world for the for the privilege of
Marc:You're like, cursed capitalism. You you you lured me into this anti capitalist trap. You win again.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. That's quite that's quite the quite the situation. Oh, that is that is a that activates some feelings in me as well.
Link:It's I wish I knew what the reference material was if it was a book or an essay or something. But this idea of there is no such thing as an anti war film, because any film that shows war in some way is glorifying it and making it look cool just because again, medium is the message. Just because that's the way film works and the way that we process the ideas within film. And I think that this is in that same vein of conversation of
Josué:Do you think the grave of the fireflies glorifies?
Link:Don't know that that that idea is an arguable statement, a truth about the world, but I think it is a you can profit I think it is an interesting way to frame the idea of you know, it's another vein is like the idea of cop agandas like you can have a show that like Brooklyn Nine Nine that has like a lot of really good stuff in it. But ultimately, it is cop aganda because we are we are watching cops. And so it's the same overlapping gray area that's happening here where it's like, how can we use this medium to talk about this topic and critique what's happening in our in our lived experiences in a way that is accessible to viewers, and doesn't end up just backfiring and supporting the thing as like actually it's really cool. It's like, fuck, that's not what we meant to do at all. They they they made the ghoul too sexy.
Link:No.
Josué:I'm I'm I'm going to I'm gonna I'm gonna go, like, make a hard hard turn here. Hard turn. I'll I'll come back. It's it's related. But I'm thinking about the way that we so it's like, okay.
Josué:If you can you can make ultimately, it's entertainment. Right? Even if it's a depressing war film. Or, like right. And I get it.
Josué:Like, lots of war films are like, even Grave of the Fireflies. It's like, that's a good movie. It's like, it should win an award. And some people made money off of it, but it's still talking it's still a dramatization of of people suffering. But I've the two, in particular, VR experiences come to mind.
Josué:Like, storytelling is so different because you can frame a shot in a war film, but if you threw somebody in there, that would be really hard to glorify. And I'm not talking about, like, Call of Duty game in first person. No. You're even talking
Lara:about like, Saving Private Ryan or in like I agree.
Josué:Like, look down and your guts are falling off. The
Link:frame of the way that this, this information is being received as a viewer. Like the the way that the screen is and the way that you can move through space that all impacts like how, how well you can buy in to the world of the story.
Josué:Yeah. Like, so so there's there's a one I'll I'll bring up one fictional and one nonfiction. The the nonfiction one, I always remember this experience. It was created by, I think it was Planned Parenthood and and partnership. And you are writing with a woman who is on her way to a clinic, going past protesters in the room, like you're with them going through the entire experience of of going to the abortion and having the abortion.
Josué:You don't go through the process, but just like the harassment that you get. And then at the end of it and it's all video. It's all like live. It's all like three sixty video. And then at the end, it has a digital component like like made in a game engine, where you're just standing in the middle of a crowd and everybody around you is yelling at you.
Josué:Things that you would hear if you were like from protesters, what you would hear. And then you can't escape. Like you are surrounded by them. That's not that's that's not fun. But the message comes across very differently.
Josué:A fiction version that I remember is Arkham VR. I know I brought this up many times. But when you start Arkham VR, you play as Bruce Wayne when he's a kid. So you're, like, 10 years old. Everybody else is, like, towering over you because you're a kid.
Josué:So even, like, your perspective is shorter. And the part that it has you play is when your parents get murdered in front of you. So you are literally next to them when somebody pulls up with a gun and shoots them both next to you, and their bodies fall to the ground.
Lara:And you're like trying to look If you wanna see what's going on, you're trying to look around them.
Josué:Mhmm. Like Yep. At the guy, and then they get shot, they fall to the ground, and then the guy yells at you. Like, the like, he's just, like, fucking like, he's threatening you also. That is you can there's no way even if you shot that in first person in a movie, it's not the same as you, like, looking around just, like, having that.
Josué:I do not recommend I never recommend like, I always give that warning before playing that game. That game is really, really I like it. I love that game. It's it's it's really good.
Lara:Intro to me.
Josué:Holy shit. That needs to come with, like, six different content warnings at the beginning. It needs a quiz before you're
Lara:fired to up. Watch your parents die.
Josué:Yeah. How would you feel about seeing your parents murdered in front of you? Would you mind? We want you to have this experience. So yeah, so VR is a very different way of doing it.
Josué:And then and I mean, so Fallout is primarily a video game. And again, like we said before, like, really your ultimately, it's campy, and it is fun, and you have stats, and you're it's an RPG. So and you can do all sorts of stuff. You could slow down time and shoot people in the knees and the balls and the head. You could nuke a town.
Josué:Like, you can do all sorts of stuff. You can drink a Nuka Cola.
Lara:It's interesting how many times we have mentioned how campy and fun this game can be these games can be. I find them scarier than most horror games and unnerving. Unnerving. I get so unnerving. Just wandering the wasteland.
Lara:The music oh, like, there's something about that, like, time weirdness with the music and the nothing around you. And just want when I'm walking through like, if I'm interacting with people, that's one thing. But when you're by yourself, I'm just like, nope. Do not wanna be here. This is why I haven't finished any of the games.
Lara:There's a certain I have a I'm like, yes. I really wanna play this. And then there's a certain threshold for like, nope. I can't.
Link:I've been jump scared six times. I'm actually done for the day.
Marc:Yeah. No no more death bras. No more no more ghouls. No more mole rats just popping out of nowhere.
Lara:No more rad roaches coming at me. I yeah. No. There's a point where I'm like, nope. Can't do it, which actually makes me wonder if I would like Fallout 76 more because there are other people with me.
Lara:Right?
Josué:I'll I'll if you play Fallout 76, I'll play with you. I've never played it. I'll I'll jump in. Mhmm. Yeah.
Josué:I'll jump in because I need an excuse. We haven't played anything in a while either. That would be That's true too. Yeah. I would I I I would say most games put me in, like, a state of anxiety and I have to like, I often don't play with the sound on in most games, especially if there are any types of weapons or things.
Josué:It just
Link:If run around the wastelands with your radio turned on, it adds a bit of levity to the situation. Get to hear the song about Butcher Pete as you're getting surprised by some Meyer lyrics. No. Thank you.
Marc:Or you're getting calls for that another settlement needs your help.
Link:Another settlement
Lara:needs your What's even worse is listening to the music and then deciding I don't want the radio on, and then it's quiet. I can't it can't work either way. Ear bugs.
Marc:Yeah.
Link:Yeah. Oh, yeah. I I do I do wanna say I think that the fallout show was a really cool adaptation of a video game into a into a film series. I thought they did a really good job with that. And one of the reasons I really liked it is that the Fallout games are single single player excluding Fallout 76, which I have not played so I forget it exists a lot of the time, unfortunately.
Link:But generally speaking, single player experience is very focused on like what your play style is. And I loved that in the show, we have these three or four main characters that all sort of represent different types of play styles within the Fallout game. I think that's a really fun way to incorporate that. That's like, these are all legitimate ways to play the game. And it's really fun.
Link:And all these characters are having a not a good time, but an interesting time and entertaining time. But it's it's I thought I thought it was a cooler way instead of just only focusing on one character in one sort of play style. Having these multiple characters gives us better storytelling, but also is better representative of the game experience.
Josué:Different motivations. Yeah, different starting points. Like, yeah, it's a it's a cool way to flesh out the world. I really like it because I'm all about that world building.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:And the game is canon. And so it it it not only fills in a whole bunch of gaps about the world, but like you said, you have different perspectives from what you're looking at it now. Plus, we get to see the past, which we've never really gotten to see before, which is really cool. And I liked it. I liked that a lot.
Josué:I thought it was I thought it was a lot of fun. I
Marc:I think I'm the only one who hasn't seen the show yet. But Oh.
Josué:You need to watch the show. It's good.
Marc:It I do wanna watch it. It's it's on our list. We have a lot of shows that we're trying to work through. But I think
Lara:Good news is it's only what, like, eight eight episodes?
Marc:Yeah. Yeah. So I I know, like, when when we do get to it, I I think it'll be an enjoyable experience. But I was kind of in the same boat where my first game was was Fallout three. And to see just, like, the like how expansive this world is, like, feel like I've sank so many hours into Fallout three, Fallout New Vegas, and four.
Marc:And I pretty much know jack shit about the entire world of Fallout. Like, you could play through those whole games and do all these side quests and do all these things, and you still have very minimal understanding of, like, what actually is happening and what actually is going on and what happens. Because, you know, like, throughout the games, they have, like, little tidbits of, like, this is what was happening. Terminals. Yeah.
Marc:Read every single Not
Link:a norm. Player, this guy. Yeah. Not a norm.
Marc:Yeah.
Lara:Which, honestly, that puts you in the in the same position as the the character you're playing. Right? Who Yeah. Unless you're playing with the one game that's got you as someone who's like a surface roller or whatever. Like, if you're coming out of the vault, you sensibly know nothing, right, about the world above.
Lara:I
Marc:think four is the only time where that's a little different because four, you start as someone you like, you know, we started the Yeah. Yeah. And then and then you descend and then, you know, there's that little tidbit where you get defrosted a little bit and then like, No. No. Not time yet.
Link:Little time. Mhmm.
Marc:It's like, no. No. No. Like, we're not ready for you just yet. Let let's put you back at the freezer.
Josué:We changed our mind.
Lara:Interesting seeing, like I've had different clients tell me what game like, I started playing the first game I played was New Vegas. And people will tell me that is the worst game to start with. Everybody in the client said that's the
Link:best one. That's the best
Lara:game, period. But now my my but now my clients are like, no, you need to go back and play it. It's the best one. But but I the I have a few in particular who are really into, like, deep diving into, like, games the way we we do. And they're like, I understand why it would be hard and not good to be your first Fallout game.
Lara:But it is the best one, so go back and play it. Although, supposedly, one of my clients, like, was like, you know, they made it. Bethesda made it. So in in the show, they aren't gonna bring you what's in New Vegas. I'm like, well, that's not fun.
Lara:Like
Josué:I think they're different times.
Lara:Mhmm.
Marc:Yeah. Yeah. Everything's set, like, a little bit later after the two hundred years. But I find it really funny because with each of my experiences with the three Fallout games that I have played, I had a very terrible first time experience with all three games. When I first played Fallout three, I was trying to, like, work through that one town that has, like, nothing but land mines and a sniper, kept dying every single time, got so mad.
Marc:I actually rage quit, and I didn't go back to it for until years later. New Vegas, I think I was just wandering around. I came across, like, the one of the only death claws and the game auto saved,
Josué:so
Marc:I couldn't escape it. Oof. So I just said, forget it, and then I just stopped playing it. And I have yet to finish New Vegas. And then before, I I think I got overwhelmed with the settlement stuff, and I got bored.
Marc:So was like, screw this. I'm done playing it. But now I'm replaying it, and I really enjoy it. I'm having a little bit of a better time with my settlements even though I could really care less about it.
Josué:So Even though the games each have a story, ultimately, they're like open world RPGs. And Mhmm. I mean, I I I don't finish most games. But, I mean, I think it it makes sense. You start wandering the wasteland, and you you can get sidetracked.
Josué:And after a few hours, you're like, you know, something shiny and new. The next fallout came out. I'll play I'll play that instead. One thing that we we briefly touched on, but I think I think it's something that could come up is the idea of, like, that misinformation and and education. Right?
Josué:Like, because you were saying, Mark, like, you don't know anything about the world and, you know, we're saying, like, well, the characters don't really either, but some of them are told a story about the world. Like, you see that in the show where and, again, I don't remember the games all that well. Like, she has spun a narrative about what is happening outside, why she's there, and everything who her father is. Right? Like, everything you have is you're you're told the story and so much like, I think such a large this is prevalent in the games, I think, where there's, like, this new mythology about all sorts of stuff.
Josué:Right? There's new groups that have formed a new religions and new all sorts of stuff that stems from it's the remnants of something else. And then you really don't know what happened before. Not different from now, different people believe. I mean, that's not so different from now.
Josué:Different people have very different beliefs that they're all made up in one way or another from from some place. But, like, there's no there's no good accurate history in in that world. And, like, starting the game with a particular motivation. And as you're playing through, you're discovering like, oh, wait a minute. Nothing is what I thought it was.
Josué:And it's always fun to, like, meet people.
Link:Yeah. I think that I think that's such a a cool thing within the narrative of the Fallout universe is that Vault Tec was like, well, we're going to create these these pockets where we're going to be able to save humanity. But we are going to give them like very specific fabricated stories about like why they exist, why they were chosen, what the purpose of this safe community is and all this stuff and reflect that into our own lives. How how are our corporate overlords selling us stories about our lives?
Josué:There's no game like this yet. But I think I think it could be a there's there's so many movies, right, that people talk about, like, oh, you can't make this movie set in present time because it doesn't work anymore. Right? Like, you can't do that without a cell phone. You can't, like like that that situation would never happen if we had cell phones.
Josué:That situation would never happen if we had the internet. And I feel like we're in this stage right now, where because we have TikTok in particular, but that type of social media, where it's like, you have first person accounts from everybody. Right? And then you have an over an overarching narrative. And like, you're slowly just like, you're slowly learning things from different pieces of like, again, there are lots of games where you're this guy, like, oh, you're in an abandoned space station and you're collecting pages or collecting, like, little pieces and maybe you see a video.
Josué:But imagine, like, a world where, like, events are playing out and you're able to, like, tap into different streams. And you start, like, figuring out mysteries that way in a game, I think that would be cool. And that would be cool. Or even again, even even a movie where you're just like, it's not a hacker that's going in and, you know, finding state secrets. It's like, oh, shit.
Josué:Wait a minute. Like, I'm just tapping into these different feeds and I'm and I'm seeing this is what's happening here. This is what's happening there. It's weird that we're living that now. And in the in the fallout world, you can't really do that because the technology you've got some floating robots and stuff, but for the most part, there's no there's no there's no there's no communication infrastructure in that way.
Josué:Which again, makes for a better story that a better narrative for the story that they're trying to tell. No. Okay.
Lara:The closest thing I can think of that could come to that is like, the Horizon games where you go and see videos of like, what happened when the world fell apart.
Josué:Yeah, it's the past. Yeah, you're putting it together.
Lara:But it's the closest thing that I can
Link:hear is let me I gotta look Make sure I get the name right.
Josué:That's why I was thinking there are some right though you're puzzling you're putting together the past. And that's why I said, you're good. Horizon is still horizons a broader example, because you are finding the pieces in different places. And there's like, cool videos. What's what's the game?
Josué:What's the game where you play the girl in the house?
Lara:Gone home.
Josué:Gone home. Gone home. That was
Link:really good pull. Good job.
Josué:Yeah. My goodness. The shared frame cell worked. Yep. Yep.
Josué:Yep. That's all I needed to give.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:The horror game gone home.
Lara:Another unnerving game. Okay?
Josué:That one is done nerve yeah. That one, I agree. I was scared the whole time, even at the end. Oh, not? Why are you trying
Lara:to fight something when you have no fight button?
Josué:I turned on every single light.
Link:Can't just set a game in an empty house during a thunderstorm and expect me not to be spooked.
Lara:Mhmm.
Link:The game I was thinking of that is sort of what you're talking about, 2016 game called Orwell, where you are like a state operative and you're like, you get CCTV clips and newspaper pieces and people's access to people's social media and you slowly are solving a mystery of like who did a bombing in this public space. And then it you know, it's talking about like surveillance state and all that stuff. But it has that sort of you are piecing things together by looking at the environment around you and making inferences from the pieces of information that you receive. Then a more recent one is called Life Eater, which I is on my wish list. I want to play it sounds very scary.
Link:It's a survival. No, it is a narrative, like horror puzzle game, where you are playing as a guy who, must sacrifice someone to your god. And you the the game mechanics are you are a stalker, you are stalking somebody for a day to find out when is the narrow band of time that you can successfully kidnap them and sacrifice them to your God. Sounds absolutely terrifying to play. But it does that same thing where it's like you are spending a lot of time observing what is happening in a space and what's getting interacted with and who is where that sort of thing to not solve a mystery but to a solution to your very specific problem.
Link:It sounds really scary. I super want to play
Josué:it. Okay. I don't think this game is related at all. But there was a game that came out recently. That's all about content creation.
Link:Content warning.
Josué:Content warning.
Link:Would say that a little bit later tonight.
Josué:Is it good? Is it good? Do you like it?
Link:It's very silly. Okay. Not not at all like this.
Lara:But it is it is a
Link:fun game. And I love that it came out on April fools for free, which is very fun.
Josué:I don't know, kind of like the idea of this MMO game where like, you can have different roles. And maybe one of your roles is the person who's going around gathering information, just like uploading videos and taking pictures and trying to, you know, add to the feed. And then other people can use that. I don't know.
Link:The archivist.
Josué:Archivist? That's not a game. That's like your role
Link:in the game. That would that would be that would be your job that you you would be the the archivist.
Marc:Like the keeper of the scrolls. I don't know if this is just a me thing. But the only thing that I that really is, like, immediately kinda comes to my head when I'm thinking about this in terms of, like, trying to piece it together is just the Bioshock franchise. Like, when you have, like, the audio tapes and you listen to them, and so you kind of piece together the story. And it's so interesting because when you include infinite and then you have the DLC of, like, buried at sea and stuff, you're getting more of, like, the overlap between Bioshock one and two and Bioshock infinite because they're they're parallel universes, but, like, their stories are so very heavily intertwined with each other Yeah.
Marc:And how they operate. So, like, when you're listening to the tapes, especially in, like, the DLCs and stuff, like, you really are getting like, you're piecing it together, and then you can pull it back to, like, oh, so that explains why this thing happened in Bioshock one. Or, you know, you know, you're listening in Bioshock one, it's like, oh, so this is what happened that led to rapture just completely falling to pieces.
Josué:Yeah. No. No. That's a that's a good example of, like, that that type of game that does it from, like, historical context. Right?
Josué:Like, you're finding clues and you're filling in the gaps over time. In Fallout, again, the show just did that. The show I think it was really smartly done as we're wrapping up. Just wanna just wanna reiterate that. Like, I enjoyed it, but also it serves as an introduction to the franchise in a really good way.
Josué:It's also a sequel to all of the games because it comes after. Mhmm. It's just really yeah. I mean, it's not surprising that the game started selling again like crazy right after.
Lara:Yep.
Marc:Capitalism.
Link:The the Fallout universe is very much enamored with the idea of of 50s nostalgia. And if if Fallout does anything, well, does activating nostalgia. And so watching the show, I was like, I'm that's not gonna happen to me. I'm not. And then they played the music.
Link:I'm like, okay, I am feeling it a little bit. I do. I do miss listening to this 50s music while wandering around the wasteland. And then they they they played like two, three other ink spots songs, but they didn't play the I want to set the world on fire. Was like, fuck, I guess I do have to install the game again.
Link:Oops. Oh, no. I'm playing
Josué:for That's surprising. Yeah. I know. I I even when they like when it happened. Right?
Josué:Like they I thought
Link:I bounced off of four when it first came out. I mean, I played a significant amount of time, but I didn't get super far into the game. So when I loaded up a fresh game this time, I've been playing with the intent to actually finish. And I'm very close to the end now. And I decided I wanted to collect all the bobbleheads.
Link:I have 18 out of 20. I'm so close. Hopefully, by next week, I will have all the bobbleheads, and maybe also be done with the game.
Lara:I love how Bethesda games are just like that, how you say you bounced off of it, but you put a significant amount of time in it, but you still didn't get that far into the game.
Link:I had played Steam told me I had played seventy eight hours when it first came out in 2015. And now I'm like at, like, like, hundred and seventy hours. It's, you know, one of the things I loved about my Fallout experience is that the games are very broken. And I bugged them out all the time in very funny ways. And so the ways that Fallout four was broken when it first came out were like more game breaking.
Link:Where it's like you it's like, Oh, I've lost several hours. I'm I'm very good at saving I save frequently. But there's just some bad breaks where vital NPCs would just fall into the earth, or whatever. Didn't they update they did they did. There were lots of updates that it was it's a much more stable game.
Link:Very hilariously, Bethesda did the funniest move they could have in that they released a major update to the game right when everybody was getting re interested in it because of the show. And it broke a ton of things. And all of the modding community who have spent the eight years since the game first came out, fixing it for Bethesda, we're just like, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, We're gonna we're gonna go fix those mods again.
Lara:That's the
Josué:last thing I
Marc:wanted to say in six years.
Josué:Last thing I wanted to bring up. If you if you haven't played these games, just be warned. All Bethesda games and I'm not and and, Link, you're saying it laughing. I can't laugh about it because it is it is it is not okay. It is not okay.
Josué:It is someone asked Todd Howard the other day about Bethesda Jank, and he, like like, straight to his face. Right? And and more people like, I know people talk about it being a what is it? A a feature and not a bug. And it's like, oh, you know, it's a part it's part of the bet it's part of the charm of the games.
Josué:But no, if you don't have patience for that stuff, like, just be warned, especially Sometimes. The game
Link:comes out. Sometimes it adds to the camp, and sometimes it breaks the game and ruins the experience.
Josué:My first Fallout was Fallout three. I had everything done except the last mission. Like I was savoring it. I was going around doing side quests and stuff.
Link:Same.
Josué:And the game died. But it bricked my PlayStation three. And I sent it in for repairs. And they sent it back with with a new hard drive. So I lost the file and I played it.
Josué:And it took me a while to think, like, maybe it's possible that the game bricked my entire console. And that was before cloud saves. So I've never finished Fallout three. I never will. I don't want to.
Josué:I don't care. It was very frustrating. But, yeah, that is I mean, it's not like, Lars, it's not like Anthem bad, you know, but it's it's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. But,
Lara:you know, it's it's fun when it's not you and you're getting one of things, and I get those videos. I get all these random videos now about fallout, and it's great watching people look at this funny glitch I just ran into. What just happened here? Yeah.
Josué:Look, I I went to the movies the other day to watch Boy and the Heron that came back to theaters. I went in m an Alamo Drafthouse. I go there, like, if I have to go to the movies, I'll try to go to an Alamo because they're, like, cinephiles. Like, they they do it right. And the movie was zoomed in incorrectly, so it was cut off.
Josué:I complained three times once before the movie because it was happening during the previews, twice during the movie, and then I went afterwards again. Like, that is unacceptable. That is I will not tolerate it. But did we tolerate the stuff with our games? Absolutely not.
Josué:Like, not only did I not only like, I got two free tickets after watching Gwen the Heron. About that.
Lara:Listen, you got your money back for cyberpunk, didn't you?
Josué:I did. Anthem too. I'm pretty sure.
Lara:And Anthem. Yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. Boy. But still, it is it's it's not okay. It's not okay. Alright.
Josué:That's my closing thought. Beware of Bethesda games. Anybody else closing thoughts? Mark?
Marc:I will see you all of you guys in Fallout five when they just inevitably announce that during the holiday season.
Link:Where where's where's five gonna take place? I think I think we're gonna go I think we're gonna go to a tropical island next.
Marc:I'm thinking the Midwest, you know? Gotta get those great plains.
Lara:Trop tropical island where there's no fallout, and they're just chilling.
Josué:It's gonna be set in Japan and you play as a black protagonist and people are gonna be very angry. That's an Assassin's Creed reference. Hey. Right there. Yep.
Josué:Yep. For Mark.
Marc:Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Always. We had to always bring Assassin's Creed in every every episode.
Josué:Hopefully. Lara, closing thoughts? You don't have to.
Lara:Link? You got all my thoughts. My brain is empty.
Link:Video games are good even when they're bad. And content adapt adaptations of video games are generally bad, but I like this one. Fallout is good. Thumbs up. Excited for more Goggins.
Link:Goo Gins. Gins. Walton Goo Gins.
Josué:But if a game is broken, get your money back. Thank you for joining us. Hope this adds a little information about Fallout to to your knowledge base and a few different ways to to look at some of the pieces of it. And join the conversation. Let us know what you think about this.
Josué:What feelings is fallout activating you? And which one of the games broke made you rage quit? Transcend the community spaces. Links in the show notes. Visit geektherapy.org for more geek therapy.
Josué:Remember to geek out and do good. I'll be back next week.
Link:War never changes.
Josué:Therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.
