Achievement Unlocked: Fulfillment, Goals, and Gaming as Therapy
Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josue Cardona, and I'm joined by Lara Taylor
Lara:Hey.
Josué:And Marc Cuiriz.
Marc:Hello.
Josué:Marc, what are what are it's your turn. What are what are we doing today?
Marc:Yeah. So this was an idea that came up to me a couple weeks ago. It was shortly after Spider Man two was released and The video game. Of course. Yes.
Marc:The the video game.
Lara:And There are other Spider Man two's.
Marc:Yes. We need to specify. Yes. The the new
Josué:Also, there's Spider Man two video games. Which video game?
Marc:The the most recent Spider Man two.
Lara:Sony's Man two.
Josué:Sony's Marvel Spider Man two on So
Marc:with the release of that, and of course, Assassin's Creed Mirage, I had been spending a lot of my free time, however little that was, playing both of these games. And I don't know what was going like what's what's been happening. But over the last couple of months or so, I find that when I'm playing a game on the PlayStation, I have this in intense desire to platinum every game that I'm playing.
Josué:Explain what what what does platinuming mean?
Marc:So basically, platinuming is just getting all the trophies that are set that that's on the console. So that's usually like a list of achievements, a list of challenges, tasks. A majority of them are like, you know, just playing through the story and, you know, you you complete certain parts of the story or you reach a certain part in the game. And then there are other, like, challenge type things that you have to kinda work for a little bit, things that you just you just do while you're playing the game. So for example, in Assassin's Creed Mirage, one of them was tense spend ten minutes in open conflict, which is oddly a lot harder than it made it out to believe made it out to seem.
Marc:So so with these two games in particular, I spent a great deal of time playing through them, and I was looking up guides because I wanted to make sure that, like, I got every achievement that I could or every trophy so I could get the platinum trophy, which is just getting them all. And when I got the platinum trophy for Mirage, because I completed Spider Man two before that, I had this, like, sense of, like, I I was fulfilled. I was like, this is incredibly satisfying. This just made everything, all this time completely worth it. I'm so glad this is done.
Marc:I don't know. It was like a sense of, like, accomplishment and just like that sense of, like, are two two series and, you know, worlds that I greatly enjoy. And being able to take part of it and complete all the challenges that they had set, I don't know. It just was like, it made me all warm and fuzzy inside. It made me feel good and and made me feel like I it was like a sense of like relief for me because I I had been really I've been really stressed just balancing work and school.
Marc:And, you know, having the free time to just play these games was, you know, just made me feel whole instead of just feeling like an endless ball of stress.
Josué:Tell me tell me more about this in the sense of you said fulfilled. So, like, what was was did it feel like there was a a hole that needs to be filled? Was there some void? Was there something missing?
Marc:Yeah. Because, mean, like I said, like, beforehand, like, I like, when I did have free time, I was spending it playing these games, and I didn't don't really have a whole lot of free time right now. Especially with this the fall semester kind of in full swing. Obviously, I'm seeing clients with my internship and trying to balance a full time job while obviously doing, you know, personal life stuff, you know, friends, family, all that other fun stuff. So I don't really have a whole lot of time to just sit down and play games because I can't just play for like an hour or two.
Marc:Like, I need a good block of time to play these games because I am achievement hunting essentially. So I wanna make sure that like I have time to get my fill of the game that I'm playing. So, yeah, for a while, I kinda felt like there was something missing because I couldn't do a whole lot of things that I enjoyed doing. Gotcha. Okay.
Marc:So Mhmm. Spending the time playing these games and then getting this ultimate, like, reward of like, yay, you did it. You did everything that you could do in the game. Congratulations. It was just like, yeah.
Marc:I did it.
Josué:Did you did you enjoy the game other than getting a platinum?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Josué:Like, like, there's a like, you're describing, oh, I once I got the platinum, I was fulfilled. Right? Like, I felt I felt all these things felt better. But what about all the thirty, forty hours you spent playing these games?
Lara:I think that averaged I
Marc:think it totaled to about sixty hours
Josué:Between the two of them?
Marc:Between both between both games. I think it was after I gotten the second platinum trophy that made me kind of sit like, made me kind of take that step back to kind of reflect on it. And that's when I made the realization of, like, the whole process of playing these games over the course of two weeks. May like, the entire process was fulfilling and it made me feel, you know, relaxed. It made me feel, like, appreciative, all these things.
Marc:It was just, like, after I'd gotten the second trophy, that's when I, like, sat down. I was like, oh, okay. I see. Like, I I thoroughly enjoyed every second that I spent playing both of these games, whether it was gliding or swinging through New York or it was running through the streets of Baghdad, you know. It's fun some fun stuff.
Lara:I'm not trying to It's a March therapy hour.
Marc:I listen. And and so here, this I wanna try and stray away from this. I wanna know what makes you guys feel fulfilled?
Josué:Wait. Wait. No. No. No.
Lara:No. We're we're
Josué:going deeper into this. Wait. Right.
Lara:We'll get to us later.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Not trying not trying to be annoying, but I wanna dissect this further. So it sounds to me like you, at some point, you set a goal to platinum the games. Right?
Lara:Like Mhmm.
Josué:Your goal wasn't to play them. Your goal wasn't to finish the story. Your your goal was ultimately to platinum, not one, but both games. Mhmm. Is that is that correct?
Marc:That'd be correct.
Josué:Okay. So, like, that's what you were striving toward. Because, like, I can just compare my my experience with Spider Man two was I wanted to finish the story. With the first Spider Man and Miles Morales, I wanted to platinum them. And I'm pretty sure that I I think I applied on them both, and and that was a goal that I had.
Josué:With this one, I just wanted to play through the story. So remember, finishing the story was was my goal. I didn't even do all the side quests. I know. Don't judge me.
Josué:Sorry.
Lara:I I will I will judge you. What what difficulty mode did you play on Jose? Because there's the one where you can't even take like, you can't pass out in in combat.
Josué:Oh, where you can't fall. Right? Like, you can't you can't actually what is it? Not pass out. Like, you can't,
Lara:like It's like you can't die in
Josué:your in
Lara:your combat.
Josué:Yeah. No. Not even that. It's like you can't just, like, you can't get knocked down. Like Yeah.
Josué:That that means, like, you can get punched really hard and sometimes, like, you get knocked down and have to recover. Oh, yeah. I turned off everything. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:I just wanted I just wanted to play the story.
Lara:I'm playing the next level up where it's easy, but, like, you can still get defeated in combat and stuff.
Marc:So No.
Josué:No. No. No. I don't I mean Normally,
Lara:I go easy mode. The easiest of the easy modes, but yeah.
Josué:I still find that combat kinda hard, even on the easiest. I find
Lara:it find There's few that I have, but I think that's giving me a sense of like, oh, this is like an accomplishment to beat this boss or beat this, like Yeah. Whatever.
Marc:Yeah. Which which adds to
Josué:the to the conversation of, like, I'm gonna beat it. I'm gonna beat it this way. Like, I want this level of challenge, and then you can feel at the end, like, like, this was this was an accomplishment. So so all three of us, we played the same game. Our experiences was different.
Josué:And what difficulty did you play it at, Mark? Just curious.
Marc:I've I played it at, like, the the medium setting. Mhmm. I think, you know
Josué:Like the default?
Marc:Yeah. The default one. Okay.
Josué:Yeah. Okay. So so you set this goal. I think I think achieving goals that we set out are that feels good. Mhmm.
Josué:Like, that definitely sounds like it's a part of it. And, of course, these are fun goals. Right? Yeah. This is not this is not something even the hardest level, like, they're they're still pretty fun.
Josué:Mhmm. As you were going through the process because, thankfully, the way that trophies are set up, like, there there are individual milestones as you go through. So you're it's like you're checking off these boxes, and you can and you on PlayStation, you even see the percentage. I mean, on Xbox two, right, on different achievement platforms, you see, like, oh, you've got 50% of the trophies. You're 88% there.
Josué:And now they even tell you, like, how close you are to achieving that particular one. Like, someone tell you the percentage of even achieving that particular trophy. So so you had the system where it was, like, you know, split up. Were there days when you were trying to progress and maybe you just did one or two trophies? And, like, did that still feel good or did did it feel like, oh, still have eight more to go?
Marc:No. Not really. I think if anything, I just kinda was starting to get greedy, but, like, oh, man. Like, only did two. I wanna do more.
Marc:Like, I I just I I wanna keep going. I wanna keep playing, but I just, you know, I had to turn it off. I had something to gotta do.
Josué:Okay. But it's funny this conversation about trophy is because I've I've seen a lot of debate about this in terms of like, there are some games that just suck, like, that are just, like, cash grabs, like, $2 games, and I bought them just to get the trophies. Right? It's just like you just bash your button and walk away and just don't even look at it. And it's just because I want the trophies or I wanted a platinum.
Josué:I've I've been that guy. I've done that. And and some people argue that the trophies don't like, they they take away from a game. Some people say that I I I think that they add to the experience. Mhmm.
Josué:But but some people, it's like, oh, like, they don't the story comes, like or the actual game is second place because now there's this metagame on top of it where where it's the the actual trophies. So, like, a good design of trophies can can sometimes even be better than the actual game. So it's I'm I'm surprised that you by your answer, and and correct me if I if I misunderstood. It was like, your ultimate goal was to get the like, you were just checking boxes. You weren't necessarily going through and be like, yeah.
Josué:I got another one. I was like, damn. I've got one, but there's still eight more to go or twelve, five hundred.
Marc:No. I think it was I think it's more of the first option where
Josué:I'm like,
Marc:I I I was enjoying I
Josué:was enjoying the
Marc:experience and, you know, and just seeing like getting one of the, like the trophies kind of checked off. I'm like, yeah, because I'm good at the game. I know what I'm doing. I know how to, I know how to strategize. Like, that's kind of what where my mindset was more with both of the games.
Marc:Because some of the the trophies in Mirage, were more annoying than anything. Just because it's like, you need to kill 75 guards with throwing knives, but we're not gonna tell you how many you need. Or if you're like me and you try to, like, clear the whole map, like, fully explore everything, then there's like one trophy where it's like you need to pick pocket a guard while they're under the the effect of a of a sleeping dart. Well, you've cleared everything, there's like almost no opportunities to pick pocket a guard because you've already done it. So Mhmm.
Marc:That was that that was such a pain because that was like one of the few achievements I had. And that's where it kinda got annoying because I'm like, oh, man. I probably shouldn't have tried to complete everything first. Could have just waited. But, I mean, it ended up I mean, I I was able to figure it out.
Marc:They still give you opportunities to it. They're just a lot more limited. But even then, like, I still had fun because then I was like, okay. Well, I don't I can't focus on these trophies right now. So I'm just gonna progress through the game and just enjoy the story for what it is.
Marc:And so even if it was like, couldn't achieve a particular trophy, or it was if if I found like in the moment they were just too difficult to achieve at the time, then I would just say, okay. You know what? I'll come back. I'll I'll try again later, but I'll I'll just I'll just continue with the story. But for the most part, I try to platinum the game up until, like I try to do it all within the first playthrough.
Marc:Like, I don't I try not to wait until, like, after I've completed the whole game and then I'm just roaming around just trying to do it. Yeah. Because I think that takes away from the game a little bit. Doing it while you're playing through it the first time, I think is a lot better. Of course, you know, there are some some trophies that can only be achieved post game.
Marc:Like, there's a couple in Spider Man that are like that.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. I've got some that I if I wanted to go back and do them, I'm gonna have to start, like, new game plus Mhmm. Because I've I've missed the opportunity to
Marc:So, like, that's that's
Josué:the other thing. Place that I need to do the thing.
Marc:And that's the other thing too is that normally, like, when you platinum a game because you've done everything, then, like, there's less of an incentive to, like, go back and replay it. At least that's to me. So I'm like, alright. Cool. I'm I'm done with the game.
Marc:I don't I don't need to play it anymore. I can delete it and free up space for a different game. But Spider Man two, I really wanna go back and just replay it again. Like a 100 like Spider Man two is becoming like my Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, where I've I've a 100% that game, got all the trophies and achievements for it multiple times, and it's still just as enjoyable as the first time.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. It's really good.
Josué:But I mean, that says something about the about the game and and kind of that that discussion about the the trophies and in which the game itself is so good that you would you would do it again even though you can't get the trophies again. Mhmm. Like, you're not gonna get credit a second time. Mhmm. Unless you eventually buy it on PC.
Lara:Time for all that. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:There's a whole bunch
Lara:more games to play. I still gotta beat Baldur's Gate. I still gotta I've I'm playing Spider Man two. I'm at 85 completion of the story. I've done all the side quests, except for a couple of them at the end.
Lara:But when I'm done with that, I gotta play Mirage. I gotta play I still gotta go back and play the DLC for for for Horizon Forbidden West.
Josué:What can I should do? You say you say you gotta play them.
Lara:I gotta. You feel do
Josué:you feel these are the
Lara:stories are the stories I wanna be involved with. The stories I wanna know more about. The stories I story there's a million games out there.
Josué:So so do you feel I'm I'm eventually gonna bring this all back to Mhmm. Mhmm. Motivation and and and, you know, behavioral psychology. Oh, yeah. But do do you feel do you do you truly feel like you have to?
Josué:Or is it that you've
Lara:No. I really want to. Want to. I I really like, I don't I have to in, like not I have to, but I got it. Like, I feel like I want I got it because I want to.
Lara:I don't have to do something. But it's I would not feel like like, especially with those particular games, I don't think. I mean, I used to be a completionist. I didn't beat a whole lot of games, but I wanted to do all the things in the games that I played. And now, I have become more of a I need to be I need to know the stories.
Lara:I need to know what happens. I'm invested in these characters and these worlds and this lore and I wanna know what happens. And so for me, it's more important to go and play the Spider Man, play the Mirage, because Assassin's Creed, play through Horizon Forbidden West because I really wanna play a queer Aloy. I really do. That's what I wanna do.
Lara:Baldur's Gate, I wanna finish it because I wanna know what happens, at least one playthrough of this game. And I think it's really cool. It's definitely a phenomenon right now. I beat my first Legend of Zelda game this year. Forty years of life.
Lara:I've beaten one Legend of Zelda game.
Josué:Which one?
Lara:Tears of Kingdom. Mhmm.
Josué:Mhmm. You didn't beat Breath of the Wild, but you beat of the Tears of the Kingdom?
Lara:Okay. I beat Tears of Kingdom. Cool. For me and I used to be like Marcus. Right?
Lara:I want all the all the things. I wanted to make sure I check off all the boxes in the game, if not the trophies. Now it's like, I roll credits and I feel really great because, again, I don't finish that many games. So now I'm on a, like, oh, I wanna finish the story. I wanna know what happens.
Josué:So so how do you what is what is it that you feel? Like, what is that reward for you when you finish a game?
Lara:Again, it's that, like, feeling of accomplishment. Like, I've been working so hard to get this thing done and to find out what what happens at the end. And the fact that I some of these games, I managed to play through Last of Us part one without getting any spoilers as to what happens at the end of that game. And I played through it before the first season of The Last of Us was done so that I wouldn't get spoilers. And somehow, I've managed to do that, and it was worth my time.
Lara:It was good to play through that and have that experience.
Josué:Not having that spoiled is worthy of a platinum trophy.
Lara:It should it should be a trophy.
Marc:Quite an accomplishment. On PSN.
Josué:Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Lara:So
Josué:so you used to not finish games. And you're saying, right, like
Lara:not Sometimes. But but not but not I I would end up a new game would come along, and I'd wanna play that game. Or I would be so focused on one game that I wanted to do all the things, clear the whole map. I wanted to collect, do all the side quests, and all and all of that. And over the years, games have gotten bigger and bigger and bigger, and I can't do that anymore.
Josué:Ubisoft. Mhmm. In particular. So so, like, Mark, he went into it. He wanted to platinum both of these games.
Josué:He hadn't even played them. He didn't even know if they were good, and he was like, I'm on a platinum. Yeah. Do you do you go into games thinking, like, what do you always go in with the same goal into games? And you too, Mark, or or was it just these particular ones?
Josué:Like, what is your style?
Lara:I wanna go in like, at this point, I go in hoping I'm gonna roll credits on a game. Hoping. And there's a because of the way I play, because I used to force myself, I'm gonna play the default difficulty. I'm going to do all the things. I'm not gonna look things up online to figure out how to do it.
Lara:I've said, fuck it. And I'm now at the point where, okay, I'll try a puzzle a few times. If I'm stuck on it for more than twenty minutes, I'm going to Google and look up a walkthrough to figure out so that I can move it along and be able to play through the game and roll the credits and be able to see what happens. Because that's what's meaningful to me is the story.
Josué:Yeah.
Lara:And what has and then the speculation, oh, is there gonna be another one? Is there gonna be a sequel? Is there gonna be this? That's a lot of fun too.
Marc:Okay. Okay. Yeah. I think I'm a lot of ways the same. For the most part, I go into games for the story.
Marc:I kinda like Lara was saying, I'm very much more I as I've aged and and become 40, I have I I'm become much more of a story based gamer. So I really do play games for the story. I like to know what's going on. I wanna know the backgrounds, the lore, everything. But I think, like, because this is Assassin's Creed with Mirage, I felt like it was just something that, like, you know, since they dialed it back from, like, Odyssey and Valhalla, I was like, okay.
Marc:This seems more manageable. This seems more doable. Let me go ahead and let me platinum this. And then with Spider Man, like, I I platinum spider the Spider Man, the when it first came out, I platinumed the remastered. I platinumed Miles Morales.
Marc:So I was like, I I gotta continue this trend. I gotta I gotta keep going. And I Got
Josué:it. Mhmm.
Marc:I already had a feeling that I, like, I knew I was gonna love this game. I knew I was gonna enjoy it. And it's funny because I look back on the games that I have played, and I was looking at, like, the trophy progress. And I was like, okay. Like, what's next on my roster?
Marc:And then I looked back and I realized that I did platinum Valhalla, but it doesn't give me a 100% for all the trophies completed because I haven't done all the DLCs. Yeah. Mhmm. I haven't completed all of them and all the trophies and those. And part of me wants to go back and do it.
Marc:Other part of me is like, you know what? I'm good. Like, I platinumed the main game. That's all that matters. But I I'm now looking through my list, and I'm trying to find games because I wanna go back.
Marc:And I know I've started quite a bit of games that I know are good, like the first God of War. Started it, never finished it.
Lara:It is a masterpiece.
Marc:I've heard many great things. I've seen many playthroughs. So I I wanna be able to play it and experience it. Part of me just has to start getting over that idea of trying to uncover the entire map, do every little bit of a side quest, try to find every look you know, nook and cranny for things because my god. That game is huge, and it's gonna be incredibly overwhelming.
Josué:Yet it's not as big as Valhalla or
Lara:Not as big as Valhalla. I think I got all the I got all the side quests in that one except for one. I think I didn't beat all the Valkyries.
Josué:Yeah. It's a masterpiece.
Lara:It is a masterpiece. It was so good.
Josué:Have you guys ever gone into a game deciding, like, I'm gonna finish this, but then the game isn't fun, and you keep going through it anyway?
Lara:I don't think so. Not anymore anyway. I so it would be so far back that it's not I would have to sit and think for a while, Especially since I go into games like I wanna finish it, the hope is to, but I'm not gonna beat myself up for not finishing it at this point. I think I remember talking about this a few times on the show. The Witcher three, I decided to play after watching the first season of The Witcher.
Lara:And I opened up the area after. Like, I had fun playing it, but after that first area, I was like and all the side quests and little icons popped up on the map, and the map got, like, 10 times bigger. I was like, uh-uh. It's too overwhelming. I'm done.
Lara:And I gave up on it and went to something else.
Marc:Yeah. Yeah. That that just reminds me. My wife wanted me to buy Witcher The Witcher three, because she had finished watching season three, she was like, I need you to I need you to play this game so I can watch you play it just because she was so interested in it. And you telling me that, and I'm and now I'm thinking in my head, like, oh my god.
Marc:I'm gonna have a field day with that.
Josué:And there's also the Witcher one and two.
Marc:Mhmm. Exactly. I'm trying to think of a game too. The only ones that really come to mind would be like the Dark Souls games where I I like challenge. I've watched people play them.
Marc:I'm like, okay. Yeah. This I I this seems like fun. I I wanna get through these games. And I have tried playing Dark Souls so many times, but I've never been able to finish it simply just because, like, I just lose interest in the game.
Marc:Like, I can ring the first bell and then everything just goes downhill from there, and I just can't. I can't do it. Like, I and then I just forget about it. And then I move on to something else because then my friends wanna play, you know, like an online game or something or, you know, life just kinda gets in the way, a new game comes out, and I'm like, I'm gonna do that. And then I never come back.
Josué:Okay. So so no. No example of of, like, hate playing a game. What about what about with a movie or a TV show? Have you ever, like, been something you're like, no.
Josué:I gotta I mean, I gotta finish the season or a book. Just like, I don't like this, but I'm I've gotta finish it anyway.
Lara:Again, it would be a long time ago because I stopped watching the Avatar the Last Airbender movie ten minutes in. I
Josué:was Okay. That's an example.
Lara:Did not sit and hate watch it. Shows I will keep giving shows a chance until there's like, I think, some kind of breaking point. I'm like, nope. Not gonna watch that anymore.
Josué:Okay.
Lara:Don't need to see how it happens.
Marc:I think the only thing, and I think hate's a bit of a strong word, but I didn't really enjoy it, would be my wife and I read this book. Was called Never Let Me Go. I think I've talked about it before on on the podcast. But we her and I both did not enjoy this book. But we powered through it because, you know, we we were doing it for like a a small book club and we had invested so much time in it that we're like, we gotta we gotta finish it.
Marc:And then we watched the movie and I I I liked it even less. But I sat through and I watched the whole thing. Had Andrew Garfield in it, so I I enjoyed that. But I watched the whole thing, and I'm like, this this was awful. I'd why did I do this?
Marc:Why did I why did I waste, like, an hour and a half of my time on this movie? But I think it was, like, one of those things where, like, we wanted to watch it so we can see how it lined up with the book or how off track it was from the book. Those sorts of things. And I think just like us as a book club collectively, we're like, yeah, the movie's not that great.
Josué:But the goal was to discuss it. Yeah, goal was not to reach the end.
Marc:Yeah. The goal was to simply discuss it. So like we, we powered through it. We were able to get through it. And I think that's like the one of the most recent examples of like, at least finishing it for a purpose.
Marc:Instead of just like, we tried it, we gave it a chance, and then just like, we were like, no. Because I do have an example of that where we were I forget what the book was called. I think it was like Beartown. And it's about hockey, a small town, community hockey team or something like that. And I think you read the first four chapters of it.
Marc:Everyone was given like everyone like on like the sites that she was reading for reviews on it, raved about this book said it was really, really good. The whole series of it was really good. We read like three, four chapters in. I was done after the first chapter. Like I was like this.
Marc:This writing style is so weird. I don't like it. I don't like this book. Like, I can't. She convinced me to keep going to give it a shot because we wanted to read it together.
Marc:The goal was to have us something do together that we both enjoyed. But after the fourth chapter, her and I, like, she was like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. No.
Marc:This is this isn't good. Like, we we can't we can't do it. So then we we didn't finish that book.
Josué:Okay. So I'm
Lara:Go ahead. Like in school, I didn't even hate finish a book. In what was it? Junior year, I had American Lit, and the first book we were supposed to read was The Scarlet Letter. I could not read it.
Lara:I I could not the language, the reading. So I got the cliff notes, and it worked out fine because my teacher was teaching out of the cliff notes.
Josué:Yeah. So
Lara:yeah. That was the only time I really did that, was that class.
Josué:I did that a lot of times. I can't imagine reading something for a school completely now. How easy it is to just get a summary and
Marc:analysis. That reminds me, do wanna know one one of my BS stories from from high school?
Josué:Sure. It was the other day.
Marc:Yeah. Right? So it was for I had to we had to pick a book to do, like, create a whole PowerPoint presentation and talk, like, ten minutes about the book, do a classic book report presentation. I chose Othello by Shakespeare because it was like a select list. So I'm like, alright.
Marc:Let's go with Othello.
Josué:I also did this Othello by the way, had a project that's, yeah.
Marc:See, there you go. History repeating itself. So this was my senior year, but my freshman year, our school did a play called The Complete Works of William Shakespeare Abridged. And in that play, there's a section where they go over Othello, but it's a wrap.
Josué:So
Marc:they're wrapping short story of Othello. So I never read the book. I never even opened up Othello, not once. Mhmm. I made a a BS ten minute presentation based solely on the rap from what I remembered of the rap of Othello.
Marc:And I remember the teacher saying that it was one of the best presentations you'd ever seen.
Lara:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Marc:And I was like, thanks. Didn't even read the book. I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Josué:Got that the essence of it, That wraps all.
Marc:Yeah. I just I just caught it, and then I just was just, like, able to just work my way through it somehow.
Josué:Alright. So so now help me help me work some of this stuff out in my head because I'm thinking and I'm projecting here as well. Right? I'm thinking about, like, you're working with a client, you're working with someone who is having trouble, like, achieving goals. Right?
Josué:And I think that a lot of stuff that we've discussed is is a helpful analogy. Right? It's like you set the goal, there's different pieces to it. But then, like, I would never if something is hard in real life, that's just a part of it. Right?
Josué:Like like, you've you've you've gotta go through the hard parts. Like, it's it's not supposed to be easy. It can't all be easy. We can do things to make it maybe a little easier, maybe cut it up into smaller pieces. But overall, achieving your goal is not is not meant to be fun.
Josué:And it's not, yeah, and it's not meant to be easy. So that's where kind of the analogy breaks down for me because I would never tell somebody, no. No. No. You have to do the ten minutes with the with the knives or whatever it is you have to do, or you have to, you know, find all the pigeons, or you have to do all of this to achieve your goal.
Josué:I know it's like, you just you just you gotta do it. You said you wanted it. Like, you you committed to it. You have to go through that boring stuff. I would never tell somebody that when when it's a game because it's like, just a game, that you can skip it.
Lara:Exactly. Exactly. Because when I started trying to do things like check off and do all the things in a game, get in Valhalla no, not in Valhalla. In God of War, trying to get all of Odin's ravens or whatever. Screw it.
Lara:I'm not gonna get them all.
Josué:Yeah.
Lara:Like, it's not gonna happen. And it feels like work rather than fun, which is what a game is supposed to be.
Josué:Yeah. Because I guess I'm kinda convincing myself because in the case of in in Mark's example, right, Mark, you're saying your goal was to achieve the platinum. So even those boring things in between, that was just like, you just accepted that those were a part of it so that you could achieve the goal that you wanted to achieve. So I guess the analogy does work in that in that sense, By working with a client and then, like, oh, but, you know, I'm like but but this is the ultimate goal, and that's a part of it. So you do, like do you need to do it to play the game?
Josué:No. But you do need to do it. It's a requirement of achieving the
Lara:Listen, wanna go to grad school, get that degree, like, maybe you really like being in class and that's, like, doing all the cool, like, jumps and stuff in Spider Man, whatever. But, you know, throwing the knife getting all the guards with the knives in Mirage is having to read every damn article given to you in grad school. Or those if you're going to be a therapist, the role plays.
Josué:You don't like the role plays?
Lara:I hate the role plays.
Josué:I thought you like TTRPGs. That's a
Lara:different thing.
Josué:No. Not the same thing. They really are.
Marc:I only like the role plays when I get to role play the client. Exactly. That's when I can
Lara:act I can channel my clients.
Josué:I don't remember disliking the role plays.
Lara:My favorite role plays were when my professor would portray like an amalgamation of her clients. And then as a group, our class would be the therapist. So like we would kind of popcorn off each other and ask questions and stuff. It was kinda cool to see how different people approach things without any one person having to be put on the spot. Wonderful role play.
Josué:Sounds like Twitch plays Pokemon. Yes. We'll get we'll get there. Funny. We did
Marc:that for we did that for our trauma class where we had to ask the client all questions. We had a popcorn off of each other. And it was cool to see how, yeah, like you said, how other people approached it, what people were asking. Because I'm like, are times when someone would ask them and be like, I never even thought of that. Damn.
Lara:There were sometimes people would ask something. I'm like, don't ever ask that to a client. Yeah.
Marc:Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, then you get those ones. So you're like,
Josué:Yeah. Okay. I so I I think I think what I came to is that maybe sometimes we just need to set better goals. It's true. Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. Or, like, well defined goals.
Marc:I think, yes, we we need to set more well defined goals if the current goals
Josué:Don't serve us?
Marc:Yeah. If they're not serving us the way they were intended to. I think that yeah. I think that that's kind of like the takeaway from it.
Josué:But also, like, if you so, like, if you if you're doing something in your life and you get to the point, let let's go back to the school example. Right? And Okay. Like, oh, I gotta do these role plays or I gotta do this class that really sucks. And if at that point, you're deciding, you know what?
Josué:It's uncomfortable. I don't like it. I hate it. It's boring. I'm just gonna drop out.
Josué:It's like, then what was your goal? Like
Lara:To begin with.
Josué:Yeah. Like, did you wanna graduate? Like, did you want to work as a therapist? Like, what exactly was your goal? Because if if you're able to drop out because of something like that, then I don't think you were as committed to that goal in the first place.
Josué:Like, why why are you here? To have fun? That wasn't though. Yeah. I'm sorry, but you, like, you misunderstood.
Lara:The assignment?
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you did not you didn't know what you were getting yourself into, and
Lara:And plenty of and plenty of people do that. They go to school. They don't know exactly what they're getting themselves into.
Josué:But but I I think that I think that's that's the majority of people. But if you're committed to that goal, then you're like, well
Lara:You still go through the thing.
Josué:Go through this bullshit. Gotta take this horrible course and just go through it and not try to yeah. And and I get, like, sometimes we set a goal and there are obstacles along the way that are that may feel or are actually insurmountable. And or just like you realize, because this this is also very common. You're like, I didn't know what I was signing up for or signing myself up for.
Josué:This sucks. Now that I know, now that I'm closer to the goal and I can kinda see what it looks like, I don't like this. I'm I'm I'm switching. I'm doing something else. And that's that's okay too.
Josué:But, again, it goes to, like, then then you're changing the goal at that point. You're you're not you're not as committed to to the outcome as you were before. No. Mhmm. Like, I'm struggling myself about, like, what goals what my goals are right now.
Josué:And it's really hard. But it's like, oh, I'm not as committed to that outcome as I as I as I thought. So when things get hard, it's like it's almost like it feels like an off ramp. And not necessarily hard, just like, you know, it can be a number of different things. It's like, like, I know the feeling.
Josué:I know that feeling you're describing, Mark, of having a very clear goal. And then you're like, I'm just I'm just gonna do it. Like, I see I see some of those trophies are hidden.
Marc:I don't
Josué:know what I don't know what they are, but I'm gonna go through with it. You know? I'm gonna I'm gonna do that thing. But if, like, you're not as committed, then, like, I'm not gonna do that. I don't care.
Josué:I'm just not gonna do that. And in some cases, that means that means you switch out the game for something else. In some games, you can just bypass bypass it or or play it differently. Like, again, the way the way we've played it is different. I just went I just wanted the story.
Josué:Just wanted to reach the end. And I don't know how many more hours I would have to play if I wanted to technically, I 100% did everything. I did all the side quests I did. I unlocked everything. Like, I did all of that, but I didn't get
Lara:all trophies. The extra little trophies.
Josué:Yeah. I didn't do the trophies themselves. Yeah. I collected everything, got everything, unlocked everything. Like, there's nothing left for me to do in the actual game or the world.
Josué:Nothing that I would get credit for except trophies. So, again, very, very different. Like, so Yeah.
Marc:And even then, I I think there's only a small handful of those.
Josué:Oh, yeah. There's just a few. There it's not that much, but, like, I am I am satisfied. I am fine. I accomplished my goal, which was to, like, I clean the map.
Josué:By the end of the game, there wasn't a lot left. I wanted to make sure that I did the side quest because I heard that they were really cool. So I did that. I've had I think I had the full experience of the game.
Marc:Yeah. A 100%.
Josué:Yeah. And I'm good. So I accomplished my goal. Also felt very good. Mhmm.
Josué:Actually, okay, I'm going to add something else. When you finished the goal, when you accomplished that goal, you mentioned how good you felt. Do you ever feel negative feelings when you achieve a goal? Meaning that like, oh, now it's over. Now I don't this thing that I had for weeks, now I don't have it anymore.
Josué:Or like, there is no more. Now it's finished. I wish there was more. This happened. I'm just curious.
Lara:Mhmm.
Marc:I think with Mirage, I think I had that a little bit. I'm like, damn. Like, now it's over. Because, like, there's literally nothing left to do in this game, and I don't foresee them adding DLC to Mirage. Like, Mirage is one of those it's it's a standalone, I think, that's it's there to start to tell a story.
Marc:It told the story. That's it. I don't think there's anything more coming from that. So in a sense, like this is the game that I had been building a pipe for for myself for about a year, a little over when it was announced. And, you know, it took me it on PlayStation, I'll say it took me, like, forty hours.
Marc:Sorry. But I know a good amount of that was having the game paused because I had to take care of something, or it was paused because I was looking up videos and and guides and stuff to kinda help me figure out some stuff. Cliff notes. Mhmm. Basically, my cliff notes.
Marc:But in a sense, like, it took me maybe a week and a half, if I wanna say. Like, if I took all the days that I actually spent playing the game, took me maybe about a week and a half to beat Mirage. And now that's it. It's done. I I platinumed it.
Marc:It's it's there's nothing more for me to physically do in the game. So I'd have to play it again, start it all over. And to me, like, with a game like that, I don't really see too much of a point in doing so. Like, I enjoyed the game. I really enjoyed the game.
Marc:But I I think it's one of those games where I can't just jump back in and replay it again. Like, if I wanted to replay it, I need to give it time. So, like, Spider Man two to me was was so enjoyable that like I I could go upstairs as soon as we're done recording, turn it on and start playing it. And I'd be completely satisfied. If anything, I'd probably set it to the hardest difficulty just to challenge myself.
Marc:Because even then there's still a challenge, even though there's nothing left for me to gain. It's just satisfaction knowing that I can complete the game on the hardest difficulty. That's about it. But I'd still enjoy it because I just love Spider Man that much. But, like, I feel like that's kind of, like, the downside of trying the platinum a game is that, like, if you know that there's nothing more being added to the game, if you know, like, one that once that's it, like, I feel like the replayability does drop for me a little bit, but that also depends on the game.
Marc:Like, how much did I really enjoy the game? Like, I mentioned brotherhood. That's a game that I could keep playing. I'm actually replaying it right now.
Josué:You're always replaying it.
Marc:Exactly. I'm always replaying it in some way, shape, or form because I noticed that my Ezio trilogy wasn't a wasn't platinumed.
Josué:Oh, no. Unacceptable.
Marc:Exactly. So I'm I'm rectifying that. So I'm replaying Brotherhood because all the trophies are only only applicable to Brotherhood for some reason, not to or Revelations, but that's besides the point. Like, that's a game that, like, I enjoyed so much. Doesn't matter how many times I a 100% that game.
Marc:I will always go back and replay it because I enjoyed the story. I enjoyed the gameplay, and I enjoy everything that it has to offer. Mirage, feel like I can do that, but it's it's a game that I need time. It would need time for me to, like, kinda forget some stuff for me to wanna be like, alright. Let me go back and and let me replay this and, you know, go that way.
Josué:Okay. Yeah. Because dopamine, the way the way that it works, right, is that it's like the way it really works is it's an it's about anticipation. Right? So, like, you feel this high from wanting to get to the end or wanting to achieve a particular thing.
Josué:And then once you complete it, the dopamine is done. Dopamine did its job. Right?
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:Then you feel other other then there's other stuff flowing through your system when you actually accomplish something. And then I think I feel like that's what you were describing at the beginning of like, oh, I feel fulfilled. Right? There's like, there is something that that you achieved. I'm driven mostly by dopamine.
Josué:Like, so it is very common for me to just get to the end, and then it's just like, it's more, I've lost the high completely.
Lara:Crashes there.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's an ADHD thing very much. Like, that's almost like part of the clinical piece of it.
Josué:Right? You're chasing it. Right? Like like, the high that you're getting is from is from the anticipation, not particularly from the from the reward. So so I I think
Lara:For me, I get that crash after, like, if I don't have another game lined up that I wanna play. Right? Mhmm. If there's nothing else I wanna play, or when I finish a TV show. Right?
Lara:And I feel lost, I'm like, well, fuck. What do I watch now?
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lara:It for me, I don't get that crash if I am like, oh, I've got another game I need to finish. So I'm gonna go play go back to playing Baldur's Gate or whatever.
Josué:Yeah.
Lara:But if I have nothing lined up and I'm like, oh, no. I don't know what I wanna play, then I start feeling sad that I am done with the game.
Josué:Okay. Okay. Yeah. I think the the the last thing I'm thinking is something you said, Mark, about, like this probably applies to brotherhood as well, but I think you you mentioned it about Spider Man at first that it it sounds like just intrinsically the game itself is a reward just like playing it. It just feels good.
Josué:You just like it. So it's independent of an a more ultimate goal. And like you I guess brotherhood now you're trying to to platinum it. But but Spider Man, like, would go back just because you enjoy it. Right?
Josué:Just because Mhmm. It feels good intrinsically. That reminds me of, like, the difference between going to the gym and working out because you have a particular goal in mind, right, that you're trying to achieve, like, you're trying to lose 20 pounds or you're trying to fit into this size and the difference between that and, like, I just enjoy going to the gym, and I feel good in in doing it. And one of those is more sustainable than the other. One of those is easier to do.
Josué:So but that doesn't mean that the goal isn't a worthy goal and that this the struggle isn't worth it either. But it's great to find things that, you know, even though the outcome of working out and doing exercise is extremely beneficial, But the ideal would be, you just like it. You just do it every day because it makes you feel good. The mental health effects that it has and longevity and all these things, it's healthy and I feel good and I like it. It doesn't matter.
Josué:I'm not really looking at the scale, just just doing that because I because I like it. If everything were were felt like that, that would be that would be great. Those are the things that that this topic made me think of. Any anything else you want to add, Mark?
Marc:I mean, not really. I mean, I feel like you like a lot of the things that like were coming through my mind and like the thoughts I was having over the last couple of weeks as you know, you know, cause I know we took kind of couple of weeks off, like, so just ruminating on it a little bit. A lot of the thoughts that I was having they're kind of like, it seemed like you were kind of having those similar thoughts. So it allowed me to kind of talk about them a little bit more, kind of expand on them. And even now while we were doing this, kind of still like even further diving deeper into kind of like what it is that I meant and kind of what it is that I was feeling going through this and and just experiencing these games and and playing through them and come setting out to to complete this goal that I had set for myself and then actually achieving them.
Josué:Cool. Laura, any any thoughts, final thoughts?
Lara:I guess, try and find the things that help you feel fulfilled, whether it's finishing a video game or finishing a grad program. I don't recommend grad school to anyone. Don't listen to me. But like, find the things that make you feel fulfilled. And hopefully, you can push through the hard stuff and finish it.
Josué:Yeah. I'm I'm struggling right now with with those ideas. Like, now that I'm an old man. Right? It's like, what what is what exactly is it?
Josué:What does it mean to be to feel fulfilled? What does it mean? Like, what are the goals that I actually want to to achieve? And what things am I working toward? Do I care enough about them to to to do that?
Josué:When when I asked about the shows and, like, if you're a hate watcher, hate play a game, something like that, I have become so much more like, I just won't do it. Like, a movie, Like, no. Like, I'm done. A TV show? I'm like, no.
Josué:I I I don't care anymore. I'll just skip. And it's that's kinda newer for me. Yeah. I don't I don't I don't have any answers.
Josué:I'm struggling with that myself. So I think I've been thinking about about this, and the conversation is helping me kind of put some things into perspective.
Marc:Well, what about, like, with with with you in one piece?
Josué:That's a that's a good one. So I my goal was to my goal was to catch up on one piece for for different reasons. Now, I designed it like I designed the path in a way that was the least that had the least friction. Meaning that I watched no filler and I and if if anything was slowing down, I just started skipping forward. Like, there were entire fights that I was just like, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, moving forward.
Josué:So, like, I I only did I don't think that that's one of those examples where it's like, you've gotta you've you have to sit through every opening, every closing. You need to you need to sit through the fights completely. Otherwise, you didn't do it. There was no purest run here. It was like, no.
Josué:I wanna run through the story. I wanna I wanna get to the end. And, man, but I'm I'm gonna be honest. I think a part of it was also, wanted to avoid certain things in my life, and I couldn't think of anything that any one thing that would allow me an excuse to avoid other things more than a thousand episode anime. Mission accomplished on both fronts.
Josué:Mhmm. Great procrastination tool, excellent avoidance skills, and and I reached the end. And I and I did it. But I did not I still did not, like, suffer through any of it. I I only did the the good parts.
Josué:I practically did, like, the Kai version, like, of of one piece. Yep. Skip that. That's pretty good. Yep.
Josué:But I'm all caught up. Now I'm reading the manga, which is like and I'm all caught up on the manga every week. Yeah. Yeah. But that that was a good question.
Josué:That was a good example. Yeah. I just, I still find it difficult to find things like that currently. I wish I've had things in my life that I was so certain of, the way I was certain of wanting to finish or catch up on one piece. That would feel so good.
Josué:Because then in real life, I could apply some of the same tactics of, like, no filler, skip through the fights, do this, do that.
Lara:To make the hard thing easier. Right?
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because hard things don't have to be we can make we can we can do hard things, but they don't they don't always have to be so hard.
Lara:We make them.
Josué:Yeah. We can optimize and we can do things and still achieve our goals. Some you know, we can work smarter, not harder sometimes. Yeah. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. I'll let you all know if I figure out my life. I doubt it, but I'll let you know. Working on it. Aren't we all?
Josué:Aren't we all? Alright. So that's it for this episode of GT Radio. For more Geek Therapy, visit geektherapy.org. Join any of our community spaces, and you can find the links to those in the show notes.
Josué:And let us know what you thought about this conversation. Have you figured out your life? What are what are some of your goals? And what was the last game you platinumed, if ever? I was like hearing that, like, if if people ever platinum.
Josué:I talked to a lot of people and they're like, oh, this is the first game I'm gonna platinum. But they but they don't because it's hard. It's pretty hard. And it takes a lot of time. Alright, everybody.
Josué:Remember to geek out and do good. We'll be back next week. Bye. Feel better, Marc. Geek Therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture.
Josué:To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.
